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~Beware Beijing-based New Oriental !
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takahiko



Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Re ~10 Reasons NOT to work at Beijing New Oriental Foreign L Reply with quote

Re ~10 Reasons NOT to work at Beijing New Oriental Foreign Language School at Yangzhou.

As one of the former (very loosely defined) 'teachers' at Beijing New Oriental Foreign Language School at Yangzhou, I have to agree with everything Sankofa said and I can personally relate to your experiences (I had to stomach only one term at that school before I was lucky enough to negotiate an end to my contract).

There are other comments about this institution on another websites too, see <http://www.eslteachersboard.com>
But to respond to comments made by Sankofa and others...

Quote: "No Curriculum for Foreign Teachers"

I made a point of asking about the curriculum during my interview (I was working at another school in Yangzhou at the time, so attended a personal interview). The substance and content of any curriculum is usually a reliable indication of a level of professionalism, as well as showing the level of importance the school attaches to the teaching process. The interview (that dah216k already pointed out is more like a sales pitch) initially convinced me that BNOFLS had a curriculum like no other. In addition, I was impressed with the range of facilities the school had to offer during a preliminary tour of the campus.

The reality, of course, was very different as I was to discover upon arrival... and like many startling revelations soon to come my way, learned only after contracts were signed and sealed.

There is no teaching plan/curriculum in place with defined objectives or strategies, let alone one with an organisational structure that covers all aspects of English teaching at BNOFLS. I remember the folder of songs and rhymes... mine never saw the light of day.

A lot of my students actually complained that singing songs all the time was boring. I agreed, although I was always very proud of the way they sang and most of them enjoyed my karaoke classes. However, I know of no teaching philosophy or practice in the world that believes singing songs all day long is going to enhance any kind of communication skill (unless the student wants to enrol in a performing arts college then, if thats the case, they're off to a great start at BNOFLS). It takes more than being able to sing a song in English to gain employment at a respectable company in China that expects their resident linguist to negotiate business deals... unless they wish to impress their foreign customers with one more round of 'Alice the Camel'...


Quote: "Conflicting Teaching Guidelines"

This was the big question on everyone's mind, during and after I left BNOFLS. I sat in the bar on many weekends listening to the debates of my ex-colleagues who were still wondering what the hell a BNOFLS 'teacher' is supposed to be. In spite of being queried many times during staff meetings, this were never clearly defined and no answers were forthcoming. I can honestly say that I was not the only one kept in the dark during the whole time I was there. I used to try and jolly classes up a little with role-plays, presentations, and sometimes I played at being a teacher with word/vocab building exercises, listening comps, or reading/speaking competitions. Bad idea... A BNOFLS lesson is nothing more than filling up the lesson time with anything you like, providing this conforms to the... 'guidelines'... errrr... .... remind me, what are the guidelines again?


Quote: "Extremely Unprofessional Environment"

I am confused as whether 'mismanaged' or 'stage-managed' best describes how the school is run...

But this brings me to the point made above about lesson plans. Pretty much everyone I knew working there submitted bogus lesson plans every week. Again, this comes back to ambiguous teacher guidelines, but without a job description, how on earth can anyone explain what activities they're planning to do? The general consensus seems to be: as long as it looked good on paper, who cares? I never knew of any lesson that actually followed the plan. It was simply assumed that everyone has teaching experience and knows how to construct a lesson plan with objectives and purpose. Schools like this do not realise that many foreigners are coming to China for the first time with little or no experience and, therefore, cannot be expected to deliver the goods in a manner demanded by BNOFLS.... whatever that may be.


Quote: "Teachers have come to work hung over and no punitive measures were ever taken"

This is unacceptable in any country and reflects badly on the foreign teacher who has a responsibility to the students. We all like a drink, but always at an appropriate time. Best to turn a blind eye to it and let the school deal with it. And, don't worry, they will as they deal with all such problems based on nothing more than rumours or gossip without the scantiest piece of knowledge or fact to support or qualify their claims.
However, I think it was even more deplorable for male foreign teachers, as guest workers of our Chinese hosts, to over-indulge in the sexual services provided by the many 'pink salons' in Yangzhou and the surrounding towns almost every week before returning to teach / engage with children again. I was asked about the sexual habits of well-paid foreign (mostly American) teachers by curious parents of children at various schools around Yangzhou, inc. BNOFLS. Word seemed to be spreading around Yangzhou, although again, I would advise turning a blind eye to it.


Quote: "Students Generally Have No Respect for Foreign Teachers"

Never had a problem with this... but the best solution I came up to deal with potential problems was to rip apart those pathetic 'behavioural assessment forms' right in front of them ! Do they still demand those? You'll gain instant respect and a round of applause at the same time. Just blag it after that and, like the lesson plans, submit bogus versions. As for the Chinese teachers, they know we were there as a token presence, to plug the holes in the timetable, but I got round this problem by taking a few out to dinner / karaoke etc..... use that atrocious food in the canteen (not the western food) as an excuse to take people out to the restaurant... worked for me.

I always wondered why the on-site karaoke bar was permanently closed when its a perfect purpose-built facility to throw all the foreign and Chinese teachers together in one place so we could all get to know each other and make new friends. There might be a few communication problems, but I was furious one evening when it finally opened, only to be used for speeches and games before it shut-!! Many of the foreign teachers kept asking me 'when the party is going to start'? 'When does the karaoke begin?' etc. I didn't know, so after an hour or so everybody left, much to the surprise of the Chinese staff who approached me in great numbers asking 'whats wrong with the foreign teachers?' What a monumental waste of a great opportunity to get to know, and to make friends, with new people across a cultural/racial divide !!! Friendships between the foreign and Chinese staff never progressed further after what must have been the most incredibly embarrassing event of that term. We all went back to the usual bowed-head 'ni hao' whenever we passed in the corridors. Never again was there an opportunity to get to know our Chinese colleagues in a more informal setting... very sad.


Quote: Extremely Low Salary in Relation to Work Responsibilities"

My first complaint. Only after contracts were signed, was it made known about the incredible amount of time foreign teachers are expected to devote to activities termed 'extra-curricular' that pretty much covers anything they want you to do (they could theoretically send you up a ladder to paint the outside of the building if this is termed 'extra-curricular').
Again, this was a frequent complaint many of my colleagues made off-duty, never voicing this openly. Such activities are designed to produce a 'feel-good factor', yet the only thing such activities ever produced was a novel way of keeping all foreign teachers 'on call' for anything up to 12 hours a day, in some cases.
Participation is, of course, as you mentioned, compulsory under threat of consequences. And yes..., I too was confronted by the western (American) principle whose fondness for sliding pathetic little notes under my door summoning me to his office like a naughty schoolboy became a joke among YZ's foreign teacher community. I know of no other school in China that demands so much of people's time without suitable reimbursement.

Halloween, as mentioned above, and in my case was a prime example, of insanely laughable American activity I blatantly refuse to lower myself to. I think this is an American thing, like the 'thanks-giving' or what was referred to as a 'spelling bee'. But for the rest of us who arrived from countries where it is not a part of our culture, society, or history, it is utterly meaningless. I still do not, even to this day, know what the hell it was all about.
The only thing I wanted to do on these occasions, inc. the thanks-giving as well as other things, was to vomit in disgust when I watched those poor kids being force-fed and expected to swallow large spoonfuls American culture. The 'spelling bee' only produced a flood of tears at the end from one happy and confident young student who was given words out of her vocab range, whereas other students were given words that did actually appear on a pre-prepares word list. And all because the rules suddenly changed to end this farce more quickly...

This is a typical example of what I believe social anthropologists describe as a process of how such social and cultural norms are reproduced and transplanted into an environment so as to make interaction with local conditions/native hosts much more 'acceptable' by people who have great trouble adapting, or are just too lazy to try. It seemed to me that, only when a heavy layer of Americanisation was applied to BNOFLS and everyone around it was expected to conform to its identity and dictates, that it was possible to avoid the accusations of being 'not a team player' or is 'not fitting in'. Well, for the rest of us who are not from America, we seem to have no trouble at all.


Quote: "Extremely Low Teacher Retention"

Being sickened and disgusted by this school most of the time, its hardly surprising that teacher retention is low. Most of the teachers who stayed behind after I left only did so because their plans went pear-shaped and they had no where else to go. This was no fault of their own, things just turned out that way, but I sincerely hope that they are successful with their future plans and manage to leave BNOFLS. Before I left Yangzhou, I spoke to some of my ex-colleagues who wished they'd had more time to find more suitable employment at other schools... some were lucky enough to do so.


Quote: Management Demonstrates No Working Knowledge of TESOL, TEFL or Basic ESL Methodology"

Because they're not teachers, they don't need to. They are businessmen and/or administrators. These qualifications and the experience produced by the acquisition of these skills would contaminate BNOFLS because of the high risks commonly associated with the "teaching virus". Although these qualifications provide an affective cure for the symptoms of "no guidelines", there are side-effects harmful to BNOFLS. Anyone infected with the "professional teacher virus", if left to roam free, could contribute valuble skills and knowledge to the whole system, thus placing them at the top of the food chain. This could produce an 'teaching epidemic' of professional, highly skilled, individuals. Regular doses of the BNOFLS vaccination known as 'kept in the dark' should help keep such wild and crazy ideas about using a TESOL, TEFL qualification at bay.

Remember: knowledge is power... and very dangerous it is too... Exploit your skills at an institution that will value it and what you can bring to your job.

I am now TEFL qualified, like the great majority of teachers from the UK in China. But we would never dream of selling our skills to institutions like BNOFLS. It was made known to me very recently that BNOFLS does not feature on the client lists of UK teacher training programmes that assist with placing qualified teachers in foreign schools and universities around the world, and this relates to the next point.


Quote: "Heavy Bias towards Foreign Teachers from America"

I noticed recently, that I still feature in a photograph on BNOFLS's website where it states that teachers are recruited from different countries, inc. England (as if to evoke an image of being an 'international school'?). This is not true and its little wonder that BNOFLS at Yangzhou is referred to by the people of Yangzhou as 'the American school'.

You mentioned staff meetings... As far as I was concerned, the Friday staff meetings were a Long March through a linguistic dark valley that left me confused. Usually I'd sit next to one of my American/Australian colleagues who were kind enough to translate for me as I didn't understand half of it.

To bring this to a close, I can identify with your complaints about BNOFLS. In fact, I've spoken to many people in Yangzhou, including some people from the local education authority, but they all have one thing in common, doubts as whether the school is really all its cracked up to be. I attended a few dinners, seminars, and other meetings during my final few months in Yangzhou where I occasionally spoke (through a translator) to officials and/or parents who sent/thinking of sending their child to BNOFLS and asked for my opinion. Needless to say, I offered them the honest answer. But I told them, if they really want to hear whats being said about the school, catch a bus outside the school and listen to the conversations of the passengers as the bus passes by. This school is normally dismissed as some kind of joke (other people's words, not mine).

I cannot recall anything favourable ever being said about BNOFLS in Yangzhou. Can I ask, did you ever feel embarrassed whenever someone asked you where you work too?

See my other comments about BNOFLS at <http://www.eslteachersboard.com>
-ST

NOTE: I have avoided the deliberate use of language that is both offensive and/or detrimental to BNOFLS at Yangzhou or any members of staff employed there. Any image or impressions this post evokes is the responsibility of the reader. This is a frank and honest exchange of opinion in response to a post that appeared on this site and is based upon actual experiences.
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Plan B



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Shenzhen

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:09 am    Post subject: Re: Re ~10 Reasons NOT to work at Beijing New Oriental Forei Reply with quote

I am sorry to go off topic again, but .......

takahiko wrote:

Quote: "Teachers have come to work hung over and no punitive measures were ever taken"

This is unacceptable in any country.......


?????????
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tsneds01



Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Maebashi,Gunma Japan

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:48 am    Post subject: Nitpicking Reply with quote

Hey Plan B, talk about nitpicking, how about the other thousand things that takahiko wrote about?

I notice that when people post what they consider warnings for those who may enter where they have already tread,the professional nitpickers come out of the woodwork to point out things that they consider flaws in the post. The problem is that what they point out usually turns out to be attempts at sidetracking the topic and rarely ever address the real issues that the original poster made. Why is that?
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Plan B



Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 266
Location: Shenzhen

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Nitpicking Reply with quote

tsneds01 wrote:
Hey Plan B, talk about nitpicking, how about the other thousand things that takahiko wrote about?

I notice that when people post what they consider warnings for those who may enter where they have already tread,the professional nitpickers come out of the woodwork to point out things that they consider flaws in the post. The problem is that what they point out usually turns out to be attempts at sidetracking the topic and rarely ever address the real issues that the original poster made. Why is that?


Point taken. I know nothing about the school in question, but always read between the lines - call it nitpicking if you like - when attacks on fellow teachers' professional conduct are made (not so much aimed at takahiko, but a previous poster).

Actually, I am heartened that people like takahiko and others devote their time to present reasoned arguments against working at a particular place.
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margyu



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 1
Location: yangzhou

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Breaking the 'x' Code Reply with quote

10 things I love about working at BNOFLS@ Yangzhou

1. Big, huge school, great facility, lodging, sport fields (swimming pool included), and basically just enormously BIG, yet pets are prohibited here:( of course in this case Size Does Matter, on the bright side rabbits, hamsters, fish, ants, flies OR mosquito are tolerable Wink

2. NON- Discriminative employment history with FTs coming from different continents North/South America, Europe, Africa, Australia and even from my own, Asia. Antarctica? also warmly welcomed I bet;) Hence, BNOFLS requirements for FTs sure aren�t based JUST on the applicant being a native speaker. Competency is measured by teacher�s achievements, and performance.

3. Being actually CONSULTED & INVOLVED in building the existing curriculum. (NOW, there ARE books, there ARE teaching resources, yet FTs are given freedom to innovatively extend their teaching). We are young and creative, spoon-feeding just isn�t necessary or desired right Wink

4. Assistant Principal who stands FAIRLY on the FTs side plus Foreign Affair staffs who are helpful, cheerful, (bounce-ful too:p), willing to assist FTs even outside the working hours, considerately in times of need.

5. ALL teachers in the school gladly SHARE ideas/skills either for English teaching, classroom management or even mutual study of Chinese, arts, sports, etc. Say, feel free to join calligraphy classes even if you know none of the strokes! Or join guzhen /er hu / violin class despite being clueless on what major/minor scales are :p

6. RMB bonuses- which, aren�t mentioned in the contract! mhmm..now, what�s left to say about that ^0^

7. Cant deny it, gotta teach, gotta eat. The food, PAMPERING, western menus/ our home meals- yes, the cooks are open to recipes Wink Oh and since we're in China, Chinese food of course is still an available free service too.

8. The children of course- sorry being carried away by the food ^0^- at this point are surely important to mention as well. The students get very excited when their FTs are around, and that includes activities within as well as outside of the classroom (playing sports together, or seeing their FT participating in the school events). Trust me, it feels good to hear kids saying �jia you� to you Wink

9. For the most part, FTs @ BNOFLS are a BIG family. So, it's fun that we hang out together, play sports, cook out, (or in :p) celebrate birthdays, and participation is purely a personal choice. There is NONE of the pressure.

10. Maybe if you STILL wonder about the school here, believe me, it's a worthwhile living. Get busy living or get busy dying right? \(^+^)/
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everton



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:29 am    Post subject: Counterpoint Reply with quote

Counterpoint

I�m also currently a teacher at BNOFLS @ Yangzhou and I�d like to comment on previous postings. It took a while for this forum to come to my attention, or the attention of most of the other teachers here, because no one is on this site looking for new jobs because we are extremely satisfied with our current school. Of the 17 current foreign teachers, 12 are definitely returning next year, because the school treats us extremely well, and we feel like we are part of a family.

I disagree with much of what has been said so far, and would like to go point by point to critique and add my own experiences

Quote �No Curriculum for Foreign Teachers"
Besides the binder of songs, this point is basically true, but that is a positive thing for foreign teachers, not a draw back. The binder of songs, and the requirement to teach 30 (not 40) songs to grades one and two and 20 for upper elementary serves as baseline. From here, teachers work together with others teaching the same grade to develop common objectives and goals for their students. So, basically, teachers are using their skill and creativity to develop their own curriculum. Good teachers analyze the strengths and weaknesses of their students easily figureing out a million different things to teach.

As far as the song requirement�the administration has always stressed that songs are not an end in themselves. Songs are put within a context of many different ways of teaching English, including games, activities and storytelling. Songs should never be taught in isolation. Instead, they should be taught, and then teachers should highlight important vocabulary words, and create communicative extensions, where students use phrases from the songs or vocabulary words to converse. Songs serve as a basis for conversational Chinese. I don�t know what the �karaoke classroom� was all about, but that is defiantly a misuse of songs.

From what I�ve seen, Chinese English textbooks are boring and often poorly written. The flexibility of this school gives young, creative, qualified teachers the opportunity to approach the learning of English from all different angles and work as a team to create curriculum.

Quote �Conflicting Teacher Guidelines�
Throughout the year, teachers have been encouraged to use a wide range of teaching styles to help all different types of students learn the language. Right from our in-service at the beginning of the year, the assistant principal stressed the very ideas behind the quote sankofa gave. Teachers are continually praised for their creativity.

If you aren�t sure about the expectations of you as a teacher, ask the experienced lead teacher who have been here for two or three years, they are always able to provide insight and assistance.

Quote �Extremely Unprofessional Environment�
Requirements: Requirements throughout China are lower for foreign teachers than they are in many other countries�that�s a fact of China, not of the school. However, as a certified teacher myself, I can say that the teachers here are highly qualified despite their lacking certification.

Movies, lesson plans, booze: All of these issues have been addressed and remedied. New guidelines have been put in place specifically to address these points. Any problems that arise are dealt with quickly, in a very professional manner. Movies are no longer shown except on extremely special occasions. Teachers work in teams to develop goals and outcomes for following weeks to avoid bogus lesson plans. This school, unlike many other schools, really does care what the foreign teachers do. Lesson plans are checked, outcomes compiled, and teachers periodically evaluated. Teachers were warned about their responsibilities in regards to alcohol, and there were no further problems.

There are always going to be issues. Professionalism is measured by the manner in which the school deals with them, and the response of the teaching staff. In all respects, problems have been easily remedied.

I don�t really know what you�re referring to as far as �child-like behavior�. Generally, the kind of person that wants to teach abroad is in their twenties, without family or other responsibilities. These teachers want to have fun on their own time, but during working hours, everyone takes their job extremely seriously. If by college-like behavior, you mean that we all basically live dorm style, hang our with each other often, and have developed close friendships, then yes I will agree with you. Most of the foreign teachers here feel like we are part of one big family.

Quote: Students generally have no respect for foreign teachers
This is not a problem for grades 1 and 2 at least. The students love us. Also, I�ve witnessed Chinese teachers read this post, and be shocked that you think they are undermining us. The school has done things this year to try and bring foreign and Chinese teachers closer together, like moving Chinese English teachers into the same office with us to improve communication and cooperation

Quote: Extremely Low salary
I�m sorry, but it says right in the contract that teachers �agree to work a total of 40 hours per week. 17 hours of teaching, 10 hours of preparation, 3 hours of Chinese/Martial Arts lessons, and 10 hours of other activities as requested by Party A�. Note: We do in fact get excellent Chinese language lessons and Martial Arts lessons. That is awesome!

Those 10 hours of other activities are hardly ever used in a week, so yes, they accumulate, and yes that does mean some of those hours are used to cover other people�s classes when they are sick or when they take time off. However, if a teacher leaves school, and a the person who takes their classes then teaches over 17 hours a week, the teacher does in fact get a raise. This very situation happened this year.

As far as all the activities, both the Chinese and the foreign teachers participate in them. They are supposed to be, and usually are, fun activities like sports days, talent shows, and holiday parties. This is mostly for the benefit of the students, who love the activities, and get well deserved rest from their intense study schedules. They get especial enjoyment out of seeing the foreign teachers participate. This is part of being an elementary school teacher. Primary school teachers in America are also asked to sing and dance and make the students laugh. No teachers are �required� to do talent shows�they always ask for volunteers. Most teachers just chill out and have a good time�the activities can be a lot of fun. Also, performance is a big thing in Chinese culture, and you have to accept this if you are going to work in China. The Chinese teachers are performing, and they assume you want to perform to.

Yes, a lot of the holidays are based on American traditions, but that is because the Principal lived in America for many years. Once of the goals of the school is to provide an American-type education.

As far as actual pay goes, in addition to our salaries, we get RMB bonuses for holidays and birthdays. You can�t get much better then that. Plus, with the new tax code, only 10RMB gets taken out every month. And, we get fresh fruit every month!

Quote: Extremely low teacher retention
Not true this year. Of the 17 teachers from this year, 12 are returning. You�re other comment, snakofa, was a really low blow, since you and I both know that those people are extremely good teachers.

Quote: Management Demonstrates no Working Knowledge of ESL Methodology
We were never encouraged to only use songs in our teaching. Teachers are encouraged to be creative, and make classes fun for the students. From the beginning in-service, experienced teachers as well as supervisors demonstrated many different teaching methods, and a firm knowledge of ESL methodology

Quote: School Constantly Encroaches on Teacher�s Personal Time.
Encouragement to socialize with other teachers is a matter of inclusion, not coercion. Most of us are close friends, and even feel like a family. No one wants anyone to feel left out, so yes, everyone is always invited to join. These social occasions are extremely fun and lighthearted. A chance to kick back and relax after a hard day�s work. This feeling of family and inclusion is one of the best parts of working here. You know you always have someone to have fun with, or talk to in times of need.

Quote: Lack of Privacy
This is a problem in any situation where a group of people live closely together for an extended period of time.

Quote: Heavy Bias toward foreign teachers from America
Yes, the Principal lived in America for many years, and the Assistant Principal is also from America, so American culture is integrated into the school. When the foreign teachers have to make decisions, it isn�t so much a vote, as a discussion, and there is no division between American and other teachers. In fact, it is usually a couple of the American teachers who never seem to agree with what everyone else wants to do.

On the point of western management, however, I�d like to say that it�s a great thing. They know what foreigners expect in a job, and the assistant principal is constantly looking out for us. If any of us have issues, we can go to him with the assurance that he will listen fairly and do his best to assist. Because of this, we do not have to deal with any language or cultural differences, because he knows were we are coming from.


In conclusion: Reasons to work at BNOFLS @ Yangzhou
* Pay is always on time, and you know what you are getting. We even get bonuses occasionally

*Western assistant principal who is always on our side, and fairly resolves issues. In addition, a friendly, talented foreign affairs staff who bend over backwards to help foreign teachers out in anyway they can, going over and above their job description

*The knowledge that what you teach does matter. You will be observed and held accountable for student learning. Lesson plans are checked for substance, and collaborative goals within grade levels are expected to be met.

*A group of teachers that feels like a family. You always have someone to have a good time with. Also, a great group of people to collaborate with on lessons and objectives.

*Qualified, experienced, excellent foreign teachers who are always willing to share ideas, give suggestions, and help out with any classroom problems that may arise.

*Encouragement to use creativity, innovation and unique teaching skills in your classroom.

*Amenities: Swimming pool, climbing wall, Chinese language lessons, martial arts lessons, western food in the dinning hall, nice size apartment
.[/b]
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Sinobear



Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two new posters, 2 glorifying reviews. Odds on this being reality 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000:1


Unfortunately, the rebuttals read more like advertisements and should be treated as such.

Cheers!
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vikdk



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 1676

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From the beginning in-service, experienced teachers as well as supervisors demonstrated many different teaching methods, and a firm knowledge of ESL methodology

I'd love to know more about this - If you're not an advertising bot everton, I'm sure you could fill us in on some of that "firm" ESL methodology Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Sevarem



Joined: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 25
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unfortunately, the rebuttals read more like advertisements and should be treated as such.

That's a ridiculous and unfair assumption to make. Because everton took the time to compose a thoughtful reply on what's good about the school, this means it's advertising? In other words, only posters who fill the boards with vitriolic garbage and negativity could possibly be telling the truth?

As a matter of fact, the poster is not advertising and neither was margyu and neither was I when I wrote about what I liked about the school. Could it be possible we actually enjoy our jobs and are willing to speak about it? But of course not, right? Why would someone who likes their job be willing to speak up about it?

Advertising would be a moot point anyway. According to the assistant principal, hiring needs for next year have been filled. I just don't understand why someone posting negativity is accepted as gospel truth, but someone who goes out of their way to write a positive response is accused of advertising.
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Sinobear



Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 1269
Location: Purgatory

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Sevarem, that was an excellent and empirical deduction on my part. Two brand-new posters, first posts both glorify a place, both posts read like commercial scripts - not rebuttals.
Did I say that the naysayers were telling the truth? Did I? Sorry, Sevarem, you are either incredibly naive, or you certainly expect others to be. It's all about credibility.



Cheers!
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everton



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry Sinobear, I didn't realize I had to post a bunch of times before what I have to say would be taken seriously Sad I don't know how going through another person's argument point by point could be seen as anything but a rebuttal. This is my first post because the comments about the school came to my attention and I wanted to respond, because I honestly do think it is a pretty good place to work. I admit, it did come off as rather peaches and cream, but the other posts were so negative, that a defense is going to look really positive in comparison.

If anything I said sound too good to be true, ask me about it. It is very un-sportsman-like to simply dismiss everything I said out of hand.

More info about the ESL methods coming later vikdk...no time now, but I just wanted to get those points out there.
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everton



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject: EFL Methodology Reply with quote

EFL Methodology
This info is from what I remember of the inservice training, tips the administration and experienced teachers have given throughout the year, and the literature we got at the inservice training

In the early grades, curriculum begins with songs
Based on research showing that kids learn language well through repetition, and when vocabulary is put to a tune, or rhythm, it is remembered quicker and longer. This is combined with TPR (total physical response) to help kids understand the meanings of the songs. Our inservice training demonstrated various methods for teaching songs and their meanings in a fun way. Once students learn the songs, we were taught to use communicative extensions to help students actually communicate in English. Example: Teach the song "head, shoulders, knees and toes" touching each body part as you sing. Communicative extension: students ask each other "Can you touch your___" "Yes I can, touch my ___"

Four steps to language learning
For each lesson or unit, they showed us how to present language points in four steps to make sure students not only memorize vocabulary, but are also able to use it in conversation (even very simply conversations in the lower grades).1. Prelude stage -- warm up, review previous material 2. Presentation stage -- present new language through songs, dialogues, etc 3. Practice stage -- teacher directed practice with dialogues, exercises, games, etc 4. Production stage -- students demonstrate their knowledge with no set script. Use the knowledge in unique situations. This is hard to do well in the younger grades, but we try.

Communicative Language Teaching
Basically, we are teaching students to actually be able to speak and converse in the language rather than simply memorize dialogues and vocabulary. Meaning rather than memorizing is the most important. One of the complaints about the Chinese EFL system is that people can read and write english, but not speak it. So, we focused a lot on a student centered classroom, where students speak more than the teacher. One method was talking friends, a cheesy name, but effective. Give students a situation, dialogue, etc, and have them work in partners to practice. Also, classes are structured by theme rather than grammer points, so students are always getting new phrases and vocab to go with it, and the grammer comes through use within the themes.

Diverse Learners
I realize this is more teaching methodology in general than EFL specific, but still extremely relevant. Since kids learn in different ways, visual, auditory, tactile, we are encouraged to think of many different ways to teach the same material. For example, if I were teaching about animals, maybe have pictures and write the names on the board, have a fun song, have props, whether puppets, costumes, etc, to tap into lots of different styles and make it fun.

Veteran teachers did demo classes to give us ideas about how to actually integrate these ideas into our teaching in a fun, effective manner. A lot of thought went into this stuff too...our school created this binder of songs we keep refering to, which is based on these principles, and I think the principal wants to copyright and market it.

Hope this is helful Laughing
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the_real_Mark!!!



Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe there is no reason to place posts which read as vitriolic spleen-venting, nit-picking rants when no great violation of one�s contract or well-being has taken place.
In my view it�s just petulant to place posts such as the likes that have been written about the Beijing xin dong fan (as it is more widely known) when the points that the 2 very positive rebuttals made were in actual fact correct and, as someone currently working at the school, by people whom I actually know.
Yet you seem more caught up in an argument then actually having anything to actually do with the school or have had anything to do with the school �sino-bear�.
I am not coming back to teach next year at the school. The reasons are not what I consider in need of being posted and no slight or wrongdoing on anyone�s behalf is the cause. Nuff Said.....
However I am more then peeved at the person who has been placing lengthy posts about the school using the name �Mysterious Mark�..........I am the only foreign teacher with the name Mark to have worked at the school in its history here at Yangzhou and there are no Chinese teachers with the English name Mark. YET....you claim to have worked at this school and you postulate as an authority on how the school operates. If true, if indeed you did work at this school.......then your name isn�t Mark.....so why then use this as your �post name�??? ... my call on it is this......you are without a Spine......spineless.....you lack the intestinal fortitude (guts) to actually reveal who you are...(I mean common!!....big deal you spineless jellyfish...its a post about a school you allegedly didn�t like working at...what are you worried about ? a Ninja hit squad coming to get you??)
Show some backbone !! and worse still you have without question alluded to the post being made by me...since I am the only Mark working here!!! That�s not only spineless, gutless and cowardly (hiding behind another persons identity) it�s also slanderous!! You suck as a person (can I be anymore juvenile in describing what a lowlife you are for dragging my name into your little online mud-slinging match? Leave me out of it, Damn You!!!) Use your own name and don�t try and allude that you are someone who actually is or has been working here at the school.
Here are some points that are worth noting:
-The school pays you on time, what it states in the contract it will pay you........fact..
-There are bonuses paid for things like holidays, birthdays and Christmas.....all of which are not stated in the contract.....fact.l
-The accommodation is fine, not small, not cramped.....we have free internet access in the apartments, a huge tv and dvd player is provided free......and the utilities are free.....fact
-we are without question not overworked....yes there is teaching to be done.....but we are not working to the point of exhaustion and burn-out for a tupance by some two-bit,mickey-mouse �English-2nd� �academy� with a greedy, fat-cat owner manager who will screw you nine-ways-to-Sunday if given the chance like sooooo many places for �learning� English in China do.....
-we are a mixed bunch of nationalities, I�m Australian and I can�t say there is any overt Americanism going on whatsoever. So all this quaff about Americanism is completely out-with-the-pixies, delusional tripe. So what if the bulk of the staff are American...I�m not and so too are several others.....
It�s a good teaching job...more-or-less...it�s fine...
All the usual difficulties of teaching are present...as they are at any school anywhere in the World........
The younger grades are fantastic to teach....and clearly the input of the foreign teachers is greater here then at the high school level where they are incessantly tested to exhaustion.....as well as the difficulties of teaching teenagers......
My main points are........no wrongs will be done to you at this school.....you wont be cheated or abusively overworked.....the foreign teachers are a really wonderful bunch and you wont feel lonely...there is always someone you can �hang� with and talk with.....and the kids are for the most part as good as it gets..
This is not a bloody advertisement ..... just wanted to tell it like it is......and no I�m not returning next year....so go figure...why would I bother to write this if I wasn�t?? because I can tell you there are other �schools� out there in China that are nothing more then varying degrees of decent into living hell and abuse with a fattened, crooked �jabba-the-hut� manager who will milk-you for all your worth while they grow fatter........
And the Beijing New Oriental Foreign Language School is not one of these dodgy outfits..... it�s a good school..
If you�re looking for perfection in a school...see if there are any job postings for schools in Utopia ....... haven�t seen any so far...have you???
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Mysterious Mark



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[deleted]

Last edited by Mysterious Mark on Tue May 23, 2006 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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the_real_Mark!!!



Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:11 am    Post subject: Warranted Apology Reply with quote

Dear Mysterious Mark,
Yes I flew-off-the-handle and yes, I certainly didn�t bother to read what you had written more thoroughly in light of the fact that you at no stage mentioned you were a teacher at the school, past or present.
I humbly apologise for this misinterpreting of your comments and also retract and sincerely apologise for my juvenile and offensive remarks that I fired-off at you.
I make no excuses for my ignorance and hasty rudeness and do sincerely apologise.
The level of �muck-raking� and �nit-picking� and personal slander that has been taking place on these discussion sites about the school and those working here has been excessive in warping and distorting the facts.
As I began to read your comments, (refer to posts and said comments :
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=32572&start=15&sid=2c8ddfd7980235754eac1ddd83cb4f90

I immediately assumed by the way in which you were commenting as a person with authority on the subject of the BNOFLS and schools in China that you had indeed worked here. Given the current climate of �mud-throwing� we have been experiencing I made the �knee-jerk� reaction of placing my post in the belief that you were someone attempting to drag my name into the fray. Again I give you my apologies for this misunderstanding on my behalf.
As for my other comments in defense of negative comments leveled at the school, they were directed at what other posts had been saying.
I still stand by my comments that the BNOFLS is a sound and functional school and operates honestly and squarely with its foreign teachers. The students receive a very good education (and if it were not so, then there wouldn�t be so many enrolled for the duration of years that they have been)
Foreign teaching staff are dedicated, talented, creative, fun people all with pertinent, mixed qualifications and all doing an excellent job in their respective roles.
As I stated , those with experience of the gamut of so called �schools� in China will understand that the BNOFLS is a GOOD school to work at.
Despite my rudeness to you �Mysterious Mark� , I am and strive to be a decent and honest person. I am a good teacher who is qualified with years of experience and I don�t like to read or hear what I consider unwarranted attacks on an otherwise good and sound learning institution that is doing a good job in the difficult realm of Chinese education.
The foreign teachers here are Good people. Please don�t let my rash and rude comments made to you in error cloud that fact.
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