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[massivegeoff]

not usually one to worry, but i was chatting to an amerian guy who lived in rio for a few years. he said he'd been held up at gun point, and had his apartment burgled. said that everyone he knew in south america had had similar experiences. basically while the countries and the peoples may be amazing he wouldn't recomend moving to south america because of the safety issue.

what say you

[ls650]

If I might...

not usually one to worry, but i was chatting to an Brazilian guy who lived in Los Angeles for a few years. he said he'd been held up at gun point, and had his apartment burgled. said that everyone he knew in north america had had similar experiences. basically while the countries and the peoples may be amazing he wouldn't recomend moving to north america because of the safety issue.
what say you
Okay, a bit heavy-handed, I admit... but I trust my point is made.

[matttheboy]

cities in argentina and chile are far, far safer than US cities and on a level, if not safer, than most european cities. there are united nations reports that back this up, just do a quick search and you'll find them.

most of the other countries in latin america do, unfortunately, live up to the stereotype, at least in the capital and major cities.

[lozwich]

[matttheboy]

yeah, but it's all relative. the question you have ask is whether you'd feel safe walking home alone through a quiet and poorly lit neighbourhood at 3am. In buenos aires, i would. in mendoza, i would. in posadas, i would. in santiago de chile, i would. in london, i would. in paris i would. in berlin, i would (etc). not all neighbourhoods, obviously, but in the city centres and popular areas.

In Quito, no chance. Lima, no. La Paz, no. Cusco, no. Cuenca, no. Salvador de bahia, nooooo.

it's the amount of caution i have to exercise that makes a city safe or not for me. and outside of argentina and chile i have not felt truly safe anywhere in south america after dark and often during the day as well. that's not me being paranoid, i've travelled pretty extensively all over the world and it's based on my experiences. it's the unfortunate result of the widespread poverty that you see all over the continent.

[Guy Courchesne]

Mexico and Colombia might share something in common, in that the capitals are safer than the countryside? Not sure if that applies to the rest of Latin America...

Mind you, none of us are in Rio, like the OP mentioned. Every country and city is different in Latin America. To say otherwise is like saying that because you were mugged in New York City, Vancouver must be dangerous too.

For some real fun, try dropping your wallet in a Latin American city and see how often you get it back. I've read a surprising study on this and have experienced it myself here in Mexico City.

[snorklequeen]

there is NO WAY i would walk around alone at 3:00 a.m. in Houston, Texas, USA!!! [where i live, and have lived since 1975]

you'd have to be crazy to do that!

cheers,

Queenie

[matttheboy]

The fact is, if you have to take much more care and many more precautions than you would in your home city/country then you're living somewhat in fear.

I don't take any more precautions in buenos aires than i did when i lived in london, paris or sydney. In fact, i do things here that i'd worry about doing in those cities. There are no-go neighbourhoods in every single city in the world, but the central, popular or wealthy areas of BsAs are safe, as they are, on the whole, in Santiago. Most other Argentine cities are the same. The same cannot be said about similar areas in Lima, Quito, La Paz, Rio or Salvador.

Regarding the countryside, in the south of Chile (lake district and patagonia), many wealthy chileans have second homes that they use for about 2 months a year. The rest of the time, the houses are unused. Many of these houses are not in gated, secure communities, but simply in the countryside. Chileans simply lock up the houses, leaving TVs, stereos etc. A local farmer may come in once in a while to check on the house, cut the grass and do any odd-jobs that need doing but they are not guarded. And there is very little theft from these properties despite the locals not being particularly rich. It's similar in Argentine Patagonia (but less trusting). This is not something that would happen in pretty much every other south american country.

I don't see the point in trying to make out that major south american cities are safe. There are a few exceptions but, on the whole, crime is much more of a problem in latin america than in developed nations, and it's something people should be aware of before coming to live here.

[Justin Trullinger]

Where'd you used to live in London, Matt? I know you and I disagree on a few other cities...but while I absolutely loved London, probably the most cosmopolitian city I know, safety wasn't part of my perception of the city.

My areas were, at various times, Kings Cross, Bethnal Green, Brick Lane, and Stockwell. (Just off Landor Road.) As you said, it does depend on neighborhoods, doesn't it?

I agree that widespread poverty creates a lot of dangers in South America. Another thing that effects the odds is the perception of foreigners.

The overall levels of crime in some South American cities may not be any higher than in some European or North American cities. But, as a foreigner, I'm more of a target for it here than I would be in New York. In NY or London, anybody can get robbed. But in Quito, the theives are often looking specifically for people of my nationality. Facts of life. (That's one of the things I loved about London- so cosmopolitan that nobody stands out.)

Be careful out there- but I wouldn't avoid South America, or for that matter New York, London, or Detroit, just because a little caution is necessary.

Justin

[matttheboy]

Alright, i admit that i've lived in notting hill and just off king's road in london..pretty safe neighbourhoods really, the advantage of having extremely rich friends...but overall, london is a safe city. You've got to be pretty unlucky to have anything happen to you, whereas in quito or lima, wandering around late at night and often during the day is almost an invitation for something to happen. i agree completely that as a foreigner in a country where you really stand out you are more of a target. Although i don't really look like a local, there are plenty of tall, light brown haired, blue eyed argentines so i don't stand out like a sore thumb as in ecuador. the same in most of chile (the german influence).

The level of crime is absolutely no reason for not coming to south america (that would be silly) but it is something that has to be considered. As i mentioned, if you have to take far more precautions in your city in south america than you would at home it means that you're worried something might happen. Reducing the risk of something happening to you does not change the fact that you're reducing the risk for a reason.

[MELEE]

Ahh yes the safety issue.

When it comes down to it, a person has to decide. Those of us who live in and love Latin America could dismiss your concerns until we are blue in the face. But that wouldn't mean you could live here without constantly worrying that your about to become a victim. Why not plan a short trip and see for yourself before committing to move here?

[sickbag]

Just to add to the London debate...I lived in London for nine years and escaped unscathed. This included living in Haringey, Dalston and Hackney for five of those years. Saw and heard some crazy stuff but probably only felt genuinely threatened on a handful of occasions.

So, either I was very lucky or London isn't that dangerous.

And on my first visit to Mexico City a few weeks ago I found a bullet hole in my hotel window. Aside from that I thought it was an amazing city and I didn't feel threatened at all.

[Guy Courchesne]

The real fun is not knowing if someone was shooting at the window or from the window.

[lozwich]

I knew someone who lived in a sleepy town just outside a major city in Australia who had a bullet hole in their kitchen window, and another one in the ceiling where the bullet had gone straight through.

I know someone who lives uneventfully in Bogota and had her wallet stolen out of her bag entering a major store in Oxford St in London.

I nearly got blown to smithereens last year in London myself.

My point is, it can happen anywhere, and nothing worth doing isn't a little scary. Most countries have something unsafe about them (Australia - highly poisonous bitey things, US - earthquakes, people with guns, really big meals etc) and if you take the relevant precautions you will be fine.

As a certain tall bald man is fond of saying, "It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."

Have a good day,
Lozwich.

[Justin Trullinger]

Well said, Loz. I know that life isn't especially safe in any of my favourite cities.

And Matt, I think you've hit on something. The issue isn't so much being robbed- it's how the fear of it causes you to adapt your lifestyle, and how much of that is worth it. But I have to say, the worst assault I've ever suffered was in Camberwell Green. (Tire iron. Really not a good time.) As Loz says, it could getcha anywhere, so maybe the real question is how much do you have to adapt. Personally, I've always found city life exciting enough to compensate for a certain amount of danger...but the tradeoff is very personal.

Guy- for heaven's sake. If you're shooting from the window, open the window. Just a little pointer.

Justin