Job Discussion Forums

[thelmadatter]

The Minutemen are not in jail because they have broken no laws. They sit in lawn chairs with binoculars and cell phones and call the Border Patrol. Yes, many of them carry firearms but that is not a crime... its smart... No claims of abuse have been substantiated against the Minutemen and there was just a report handed over to the OAS to this effect.

The shame is that a federal agency cares more about a foreign government than it does its own citizens. What do you think the Mexican govt does with knowing the Minuteman positions... tells the coyotes and narcotraficantes... aiding and abetting breaking our laws.

gordogringo... why do you fear those who follow and want others to follow the laws more than those who break them?

[cwc]

Mexico doesn�t want the illegal immigration shut down because it is the basis of their No. 2 source of income behind oil. When one thinks about it from that viewpoint, it becomes clear that Mexico has a lot to lose if the illegals are not allowed to enter. It doesn�t make economical sense. It all comes down to money, not human rights as portrayed.

[Guy Courchesne]

There is no way to tell if that number 2 source of income stems from legal or illegal immigration. It's probably divided between the two, so not as much as you might think. Consider that people who go the legal route likely have better jobs...higher paying...they might even make up the lion's share of remissions.

The US draws a far larger economic benefit than Mexico does from illegal immigration, keeping prices down and paying a pittance to illegal workers.

From that point of view, the US also has a lot to lose by stemming illegal immigration.

[cwc]

Have you seen the stories about the whole cities/states that are propped up by money being sent back? Very few of those people went the legal way. BTW, what is the legal:illegal ratio?
Bush is planning to send 6,000 troops to the border. About time. There are enough people to work the fields, shut the door. We can�t stand 500,000 more every year.

[Guy Courchesne]

Bush's speech...the text.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/15/bush.immigration.text/index.html

[snorklequeen]

Sonia Nazario was on Larry King Live on Monday night, 5/15/06 talking about her book, Enrique's Journey; she followed the route this teenager took from Honduras to the US, searching for his mother. it sounds like fascinating reading!

here are a couple of quick write-ups about her book:

"From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. Soon to be turned into an HBO dramatic series, Nazario's account of a 17-year-old boy's harrowing attempt to find his mother in America won two Pulitzer Prizes when it first came out in the Los Angeles Times. Greatly expanded with fresh research, the story also makes a gripping book, one that viscerally conveys the experience of illegal immigration from Central America. Enrique's mother, Lourdes, left him in Honduras when he was five years old because she could barely afford to feed him and his sister, much less send them to school. Her plan was to sneak into the United States for a few years, work hard, send and save money, then move back to Honduras to be with her children. But 12 years later, she was still living in the U.S. and wiring money home. That's when Enrique became one of the thousands of children and teens who try to enter the U.S. illegally each year. Riding on the tops of freight trains through Mexico, these young migrants are preyed upon by gangsters and corrupt government officials. Many of them are mutilated by the journey; some go crazy. The breadth and depth of Nazario's research into this phenomenon is astounding, and she has crafted her findings into a story that is at once moving and polemical. Photos not seen by PW. (Feb. 2 Copyright � Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved."

"From School Library Journal
Adult/High School. Seeking to understand why Latina single mothers leave their children to come to the U.S., and why many children undertake the hazardous journey to reunite with them, Nazario traced one family's story. Enrique was determined to find his mother, who left him in Honduras when he was five. At 16, after seven attempts to make it to Texas, robbed by bandits or police, beaten, jailed, and deported again and again, he finally reached the Rio Grande and earned enough to call her. She sent him money to pay a coyote to smuggle him across the border and the two were reunited, but they are strangers now, their relationship strained. Meanwhile, Enrique's girlfriend in Honduras bore his child. Ultimately, she joined him, leaving their three-year-old daughter behind. Mothers leave their children to send back money for better food, clothing, and schooling, yet years of separation strain family ties. The author retraced Enrique's journey by traveling on top of trains, hitchhiking, taking buses, facing the dangers the teen faced. Photographs and interviews with him, family members, other children, and those who provide aid along the way document the hazards of migration. Descriptions of rapes, beatings, and jailing of immigrant children and accounts of those who suffered loss of limbs falling from freight trains are graphic and disturbing. But no one can doubt the authenticity of this reporting. Molly Connally, Chantilly Regional Library, Fairfax County, VA"

if they want to come here this badly, that they will go through this kind of living hell, will we really be able to keep them out?

i was on a canoe trip on the Rio Grande River in west Texas near Big Bend in the summer in 1978; we saw illegals coming across and some asked us for a ride across the river to the US side; i was shocked when i saw the terrain in that area, both south and north of the river for miles and miles -- very little water, tall bluffs, no towns for miles and miles and miles, no cars going by; you have to see the terrain to really appreciate what they go through in west Texas and northern Mexico; i don't know that i would be willing to suffer that much to get here; i realized how few options they have and i became more sympathetic to their desire to get here

now we're hearing on the news about how much $$$ the various US governments at all levels spend on educating illegal kids, on health care and all the rest, and i can see how us taxpayers are getting nailed; i certainly don't have the answers

Nazario said that we in the US will never, ever stem the tide of this northward migration in any significant manner unless (1) we find ways to improve the economic conditions in their countries of origin and (2) if we begin and continue penalizing the US employers who hire illegals, which will has never happened [she claims] and will likely never happen

Q



Queenie

[thelmadatter]

cwc... unfortunately that number is misleading. They are not being called up like they have been for Iraq... for a year or more. They will be doing their 2-week stint on the border... So divde 600 by 26 (2-week periods a year) and youll get only 230 extra National Guard somewhere on the border.

Pretty pathetic. However, that is supposedly setting off some of the same folks that brought about the protests that lead to the speech last night. Some kind of protest tomorrow, if some news reports are right.

[gordogringo]

OK TD.To answer your question.I do not fear people who follow laws.But your impression of the Minutemonsters is completely inaccurate.They often impersonate law enforcement.They arrest and detain undocumented�s regularly.They are not following the law.They have little or no firearms training but carry guns.Real smart!!!!!! These folks need to return to the trailer parks and retirement homes they came out of. I often hear from nurses in TJ about injuries they treated caused by the militia chasing after the migrants then attacking.Real law enforcement trains for many months on how to arrest and detain individuals with little actual harm to them or the officer.None for the minutemonsters.My guess would be the majority posess the firearms illegally.That would be a good misdemeanor to start with.And as many have multiple weapons that is a felony in California and Arizona.There is your jail time.But that is ok.We will have it your way.End illegal immigration.Collapse the US economy.Make Mexico even more impoverished.This is what you want.

[thelmadatter]

Please oh please offer me some reputable sources to back up your assertions.

And before you tell me about the one incident where an illegal was stopped by a Minutemen, let me remind you that the said person was asked to pose with a couple of guys during the Minutemen's first "deployment" back last year.

http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20050425-093832-3242r.htm

Said photos are available to view on the Net. The border crosser didnt look all that horrified to me.

Are illegal border crossers afraid of the Minutemen? Sure... but maybe for the right reasons.

[ls650]

[Samantha]

This is an interesting reaction to Bush's speech.

http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4909860&nav=HMO6

[cwc]

Why does the Mexican press treat the idea of the USA controlling its border so badly? Why do they insist that the illegals MUST cross? I say that there are enough illegals sending money as it is. Shut the door!!!

[grahamcito]

[cwc]

Something that strikes me as funny is the fact that men with guns in green suits patrol the southern Mexican border. Their helicopters fly out of the Air Station in Merida. I have talked with them in the bus station on numerous occasions. Active duty Mexican military. What�s the problem with us using soldiers to patrol our border? They do it!!

[Guy Courchesne]

I don't think the question is about what Mexico does on its border. Mexico hasn't changed anything. The issue that concerns people is that the US is changing the way it does things. What would Guatemala say if Mexico decided to add snipers to the border? That would represent a change...a toughing stance.

It occurred to me today that we are due for an earthquake in Mexico City. I have a feeling in my bones.