Job Discussion Forums

[cwc]

Guy, you�re off base on this one. It is the old case of "do as I say, not as I do". It is also stretching it saying there will be snipers. I am certain that the troops have strict rules of engagement and won�t shoot at a distance. If a troop shoots someone at over 100 yards, I will never post again. Sure, if a pollero pulls a gun, he will regret it. Mexico patrols with armed helicopters. What�s the difference? Why all the hub-bub about us protecting our border? The UN hasn�t said anything about it. Why? It is fully legal and expected. Do the European countries patrol their borders with the military? Of course. I continue to ask, "What�s the big deal?"

[Guy Courchesne]

Oh, I happen to agree. The US can do whatever it wants about its border and nobody can say boo about it. I'm only pointing out that the military on Mexico's border is different from military on the US border. Mexico isn't adding more forces to take over from a different agency. The US is.

I'm not at all against any of this...just an observer.

[M@tt]

i'll bet it's really easy to guard mexico's southern border. it's soooooo short in comparison to the northern border. in a way they lucked out.

[MELEE]

Ever been to the Lagunas de Monte Bello? Its a national park right on the boarder in Chiapas. My husband (Mexican) and I crossed the boarder 6 times on horseback riding around in that park, nobody is gaurding Mexico's southern boarder outside of the major roads. Its a piece of cake to cross without showing any papers.

[cwc]

Spain will urge Africa to stem immigrant tide

Giles Tremlett in Madrid
Tuesday May 16, 2006
The Guardian


Spanish authorities yesterday pledged to use satellite monitoring and a diplomatic offensive to prevent fresh waves of fishing boats full of illegal immigrants setting out from west Africa for the Canary Islands. The move came after a weekend in which a record-breaking 974 illegal African immigrants reached the islands in boats that had set out from Mauritania and Senegal.
Spain's Socialist government held an emergency meeting yesterday and concluded that much of the work of stopping illegal immigration would have to be done in Africa. "The terrible truth is that there are millions of people who leave their countries looking for a better life," deputy prime minister Maria Teresa Fernandez said.
She announced a diplomatic offensive to persuade African countries to help control the flow of illegal immigrants along the route, which starts in the Atlantic ports of Mauritania and Senegal, and can take more than a week. About 1,000 people are believed to have drowned along the route over the past six months.
Spain will send 10 new diplomats to west and central Africa, and open an embassy in Mali - where many of the immigrants start their odyssey. Spain was already due to begin joint maritime patrols with Mauritania this week.
About 150 immigrants a day have been reaching the Canary Islands over the past 10 days, mainly at the holiday island of Tenerife. The total this year is 20% more than for the whole of 2005.
Last year Spain reinforced the fences and barriers around its two north African enclaves, at Ceuta and Melilla, after they were successfully stormed by crowds of immigrants.



God d*mn Spain! Building fences and barriers to stop illegal immigration. What b*stards! And the maritime patrols will be done, no doubt, by unarmed yachtsmen. cwc bringing you the international news you wouldn�t otherwise see.

[Guy Courchesne]

Spain is pursuing a two-pronged strategy...more enforcement and patrols and direct communication with the countries immigrants come from.

[cwc]

Isn�t "diplomatic offensive" an oxymoron?

Do you really think you can "educate" people to stay home?

Economic support? How? Create another welfare state?

Lives WILL be saved by convincing Mexicans that they will be caught, again and again.

Mexico will be forced to create jobs if there is no other option. It is obvious that the Mexican govt. is pro illegal immigration. Takes the heat off them and adds to the coffers.

[Guy Courchesne]

Guest worker program, first, since the need is there.

Mexico is not going to create enough jobs to compete or compare to what the US has to offer. There will never be parity.

Shoring up the border is totally fine.

[cwc]

Capitalism is a mean mother forker. It does work, but takes time. The people want an instant fix. It may take 20 years to repair decades of damage. We have enough workers. Close the door. Why is it a bad thing that the US can pay subsidies?

It all goes back to the fact that the poor want to be rich, but don�t see the sacrifice and hard work of the rich.

[MO39]

cwc,

I don't know if the poor want to be rich; most of them just want to be paid fairly for their labor so they can support their families in a decent fashion. Are you implying that the rich are rich because they work so very hard (what about those who inherit their wealth?) and that the poor are poor because they're lazy bums?

One problem with the US government subsidizing corporate agribusinesses is that it makes for unfair competition for the smaller family farmers, whether in Mexico or the United States.

I've said my piece for now, and I feel a lot better for getting that off my chest!

MO

[cwc]

[angela olive]

Military service is the best way to learn about life and yourself


I disagree. I am active duty navy. I realize that I am getting in on this conversation a little late, but I feel compelled. Military service is something that those of us in lower income brackets get suckered into in an effort to pay for college. That is how I ended up here. Military life is about breaking down the individual using any means necessary, including physical and mental abuse/manipulation. Independent thinkers have a hard time in the military. We are subject to the whims of incredibly ignorant authority and crappy living conditions. The best way to learn about one's self is to live free in autonomy. Furthermore, the military has no business bringing it's predatory advertising into our schools.

There, im off my soap box now. Looking forward to my bit being over so I can once again be free in La Gran Ciudad de Mexico.

[angela olive]

Mexico's agricultural industry has been decimated by NAFTA.

Excellent point Guy. I would like to add that provisions of NAFTA destroyed the tribal communal ownership and farming of land, thereby parcelling out the land and auctioning it off to the highest bidding multi-national corporations. Plain theft if you ask me. As a result we here in Central California have seen a huge influx of indiginous Mexicans that don't speak Spanish coming here to work for slave wages. Also, it is my understanding that Mexican wages are running 20-30 % lower now than before NAFTA. These people are just trying to survive. I'm tired of seeing them criminalized.

[thelmadatter]

I was military too... way back in the late 80's, the end of the Cold War period. But I lasted only a year and a half before I got pregnant and left, forfeiting my military college benefits (including the $1000 I put in to apply to the program).

While I, too, was a bit too much of a free spirit to really adapt to military life. However, I do not blame the Army or the govt for this. I made the choice. I disagree with angela. No one suckered you... you let yourself get suckered if thats what you feel. No one forced you to sign on the dotted line and forget the "I was poor" excuse, esp. when your definition of "poor" was that you couldnt afford college. (Try living 3 in a small one-bedroom apt. because my mom was a single mom before women could even have credit in their own name!) There are always ways to pay for college if you really want it. The military is just one of those. I managed to pay for a first /second college degree and a masters working as a cook, hotel clerk and a teaching assistant. I had financial aid for my first bachelor's but that was because my mother died my sophmore year. (a degree that turned out to be useless in the job market but my goal back then was to finish for my mom's sake) I did my second bachelors part-time and was a mom at the same time. Got a scholarship that covered most of my master's tuition but still had to support myself and son, after being newly divorced.

Angela, I suspect you are one of the many that went into the military not knowing what you wanted so you let the recruiter put you where he needed you, rather than decided what MOS you wanted and wait for a position to open up. Why do you think it was the military's job to have your best interests in mind (and indeed how would they know what that would be if you didnt?) when you werent looking out for your own interests? In the end, you signed on the dotted line... no one put a gun to your head. You remind me of a Canadian teacher we had here for a while who was mad at the Canadian gov't for "letting" her study history (and amassing lots of student debt) when they couldnt "guarantee" her a high-paying job after her degree. A basic bit of research could have told her that such a thing would be difficult. But I think she needed a way to justify to herself defaulting on her loans and not paying her taxes.

Freedom of choice means taking responsibility for your own actions, including the choice of letting someone else influence you into doing something against your own interests.

[cwc]

If people enlist in the military strictly for the economic benefit, they are wrong from the start. It is a whole lot more than a paycheck and benefits.
Testing high and waiting for the right job is also very important. I spoke of that in one of my first posts.
Even if one is an independent thinker, one must play by the rules in or out of the military. As in sports, playing by the rules makes it much easier to win consistently. The crappy living conditions and crappier bosses prepare one for the real world. If one learns how to cope with discomfort and stress, one can thrive in any enviroment. That's why some adults need to have their hand held and others blaze the trail. Experience teaches. Whining debilitates.