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KarenB · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 227 Location: Hainan

The bad news is that these students who get into uni without passing the examinations (and this girl is most likely one) will almost always be failures.

You see, she entered your class way below the skill level of the rest of the class. Therefore, she is sitting there bewildered (like you would be if someone plunked you into a freshman college Mandarin class), because she has absolutely no idea of what's going on. As the rest of your class makes progress, she falls further and further behind.

Furthermore, she probably lacks the motivation of the rest of her classmates. There's probably one of two things (perhaps both) going on here: 1) she has a rich uncle, and she figures she can skate by on her family connections, rather than having to apply herself and actually learn something; 2) she really doesn't want to be an English major; probably her family decided this for her, but she doesn't have the guts to let them know she hasn't any interest in English -- therefore, she uses passive resistance by simply failing to study the material.

And there's really nothing you can do about it. Her classmates will help her along, and assist her with cheating on her exams, and when she takes your oral exam, you can bet there'll be one or two students hovering nearby, whispering the answers for her to give. Even if you fail her, it will make little difference. She will not repeat her Freshmen year. The school will promote her right along with her classmates.

Now that you've called special attention to her (and humiliated her a bit), she'll probably do one of two things: 1) she'll either pretty much stop coming to class, or she'll put her head down on the desk and sleep, or she'll read Chinese novels in your class; 2) she'll buckle down and try to learn the material (highly unlikely).

About the only thing you CAN do is offer her private tutoring on the side. I offered this a couple years ago with about 8 of my slowest students. They could come to my house (together) about once or twice a week, and we would go through the material we were covering in class, and I would give them more individualized instruction. Well, about 4 or 5 of the 8 came on a regular basis, and did make some progress, and managed to pass the class. The other 3 or so didn't bother (they were the ones with rich uncles), and I failed them. They returned the next year, in the same class with their classmates. My husband failed them that year. They returned the 3rd year in the same class with their classmates. By this time, they rarely bothered coming to class. I failed them. They graduated. (Now one of them has been sent by her family to Australia. She graduated from college with a degree in English, and doesn't know enough English to answer, "How are you doing?" I can just imagine how she's doing in the land down under).

7969 · Joined: 26 Mar 2003 Posts: 5782 Location: Coastal Guangdong

well-said up above. there comes a time when the student needs to take responsibility for their education. it doesnt, however, seem a high priority for this student.

SimonM · Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 1835 Location: Toronto, Ontario

fallon77 · Joined: 12 Sep 2005 Posts: 105 Location: Harbin

There are lazy students who don't want to learn. I think we have all encountered that. Lately I have been trying to find something that interests my difficult students, ie, art, music, etc. If you can discover that and teach to that student in that context you might be able to interest them and build some confidence. But, I have classes of 20, not 75. I can spend a little more time to discover what makes my students tick.

Would you school actually fail her? That's surprising.

Later,
Fallon

latefordinner · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 973

<bump>
I came upon this thread while searching for another.
KarenB:

SimonM · Joined: 17 Apr 2005 Posts: 1835 Location: Toronto, Ontario

I will often break up the natural group of friends and re-organize groups to put together strong students with weaker ones. I'm teaching English at a teaching university. The students in my class will be the English teachers of the future. They have to be able to rise above a slight embarassment if they want to be able to effectively manage their own classes in the future.

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

"I will often break up the natural group of friends and re-organize groups to put together strong students with weaker ones." - Simon

Yes, by all means, break up friends. But I've found it more productive to pair people up with someone who is more similar than not to their own English ability. It sounds counter-intuitive, but with one better than the other, the weaker of the two will invariably come to rely on the stronger as a translator, while the translator will not be challenged by having someone to converse with in English. Both will suffer. With groupwork, a couple of better students can be a benefit; but here too I think it's best to avoid a huge differential.

Now, back to the original problem of what to do about a few weak students in an otherwise strong class. This is a chronic problem when you have social promotion, particularly so when a few students' parents are allowed to buy their way past the normal admissions standards. Certainly, you could tutor them on your own time. I prefer to utilize the source of their disadvantage - their parents' money - to everyone's advantage. I work with the administration to set up evening classes, for which I charge a set fee per extra period of instruction (what the administration charges/includes is their business). The students who are having difficulties are encouraged to join in.

Those that take part in remedial classes almost always make significant progress. Typically, the remedial classes will be at the Elementary level if the normal freshman class is Pre-Intermediate; but I'd be equally happy to start with Beginner. Where remedial classes are not an option, or a student's motivation is simply lacking, it might be preferable just to let go rather than to confront the student and the administration with the embarrassing (loss of face) reality of the situation.

latefordinner · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 973

ChinaPete:

Malsol · Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 1976 Location: Lanzhou

I had one young man who sat at his UNI desk and foamed at the mouth. He bent his head down and just foamed and all that saliva fell to the floor. The janitor came into that room many times a day to clean up his puddle.

This kid never spoke a word. He never wrote a word. Her never read a word. He never passed a class.

He graduated and received a B.A in ?????? (I do not know what)

This is an absolutely true story. I could not believe it until ....

Now I believe anything. This is China folks.

grwit · Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 329 Location: Dagobah

Through my teaching experience in Australian Primary schools there will often be a student who isn't up to scratch in whatever subject. Usually because they don't like the subject.

In my opinion; at a university level it is the students responsibility to want to learn not the teachers responsibility to make them learn. ie. Teach the ones that want to learn and don't worry so much about the ones who don't want to learn. It seems that this girl simply doesn't want to learn english for what ever reason.

Is it fair for a teacher provide equal time for each student or spend more time with the slower students? It is an age old question in the teaching industry. I remember having to write an essay on it in Uni.

My advise: continue what you are doing if she doesn't pick up her game then fail her. Chances are that if she does have a rich uncle then the school will pass her regardles of the grade that you give her.

Question: Can she read and if so can she speak english from reading a text? Is it just her listening that is the problem or is her oral english not good also?

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

I remember way back in my college days when I struggled with College Algebra. I was hovering around a "D" for the first third of a semester. There was a gal in my class with the same problem. We decided to become study buddies. She lived in a nearby smaller town so we'd do as much of the homework as we could on our own and then on Monday nights (after Melrose Place), one would call the other, we'd go over the problems before our Tuesday morning class, and we'd figure out where we went wrong and try to fix it. Then on Tuesdays before the class, we'd meet in the student lounge and one or the other would go to the teacher in his office to get a little extra help. We both passed with "A"s (granted, my A was like a 90.7% or something, but I took it with a big grin on my face!).

So, my point is, if a student wants to suceed at a subject, ANY subject, he or she can make it work - - especially at the college level. You can talk about students pairing up and practicing their English outside of class. You can suggest "study buddies" or any number of other ideas. But you can lead a horse to water, blah, blah, blah . . . Do your best as a teacher, then it's their job to do their best as a student - - if they want to, that is.