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cwc
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 372
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Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: speaks for itself |
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Mexico Works to Bar Non-Natives From Jobs By MARK STEVENSON, Associated Press Writer
If Arnold Schwarzenegger had migrated to Mexico instead of the United States, he couldn't be a governor. If Argentina native Sergio Villanueva, firefighter hero of the Sept. 11 attacks, had moved to Tecate instead of New York, he wouldn't have been allowed on the force.
Even as Mexico presses the United States to grant unrestricted citizenship to millions of undocumented Mexican migrants, its officials at times calling U.S. policies "xenophobic," Mexico places daunting limitations on anyone born outside its territory.
In the United States, only two posts � the presidency and vice presidency � are reserved for the native born.
In Mexico, non-natives are banned from those and thousands of other jobs, even if they are legal, naturalized citizens.
Foreign-born Mexicans can't hold seats in either house of the congress. They're also banned from state legislatures, the Supreme Court and all governorships. Many states ban foreign-born Mexicans from spots on town councils. And Mexico's Constitution reserves almost all federal posts, and any position in the military and merchant marine, for "native-born Mexicans."
Recently the Mexican government has gone even further. Since at least 2003, it has encouraged cities to ban non-natives from such local jobs as firefighters, police and judges.
Mexico's Interior Department � which recommended the bans as part of "model" city statutes it distributed to local officials � could cite no basis for extending the bans to local posts.
After being contacted by The Associated Press about the issue, officials changed the wording in two statutes to delete the "native-born" requirements, although they said the modifications had nothing to do with AP's inquiries.
"These statutes have been under review for some time, and they have, or are about to be, changed," said an Interior Department official, who was not authorized to be quoted by name.
But because the "model" statues are fill-in-the-blanks guides for framing local legislation, many cities across Mexico have already enacted such bans. They have done so even though foreigners constitute a tiny percentage of the population and pose little threat to Mexico's job market.
The foreign-born make up just 0.5 percent of Mexico's 105 million people, compared with about 13 percent in the United States, which has a total population of 299 million. Mexico grants citizenship to about 3,000 people a year, compared to the U.S. average of almost a half million.
"There is a need for a little more openness, both at the policy level and in business affairs," said David Kim, president of the Mexico-Korea Association, which represents the estimated 20,000 South Koreans in Mexico, many of them naturalized citizens.
"The immigration laws are very difficult ... and they put obstacles in the way that make it more difficult to compete," Kim said, although most foreigners don't come to Mexico seeking government posts.
J. Michael Waller, of the Center for Security Policy in Washington, was more blunt. "If American policy-makers are looking for legal models on which to base new laws restricting immigration and expelling foreign lawbreakers, they have a handy guide: the Mexican constitution," he said in a recent article on immigration.
Some Mexicans agree their country needs to change.
"This country needs to be more open," said Francisco Hidalgo, a 50-year-old video producer. "In part to modernize itself, and in part because of the contribution these (foreign-born) people could make."
Others express a more common view, a distrust of foreigners that academics say is rooted in Mexico's history of foreign invasions and the loss of territory in the 1847-48 Mexican-American War.
Speaking of the hundreds of thousands of Central Americans who enter Mexico each year, chauffeur Arnulfo Hernandez, 57, said: "The ones who want to reach the United States, we should send them up there. But the ones who want to stay here, it's usually for bad reasons, because they want to steal or do drugs."
Some say progress is being made. Mexico's president no longer is required to be at least a second-generation native-born. That law was changed in 1999 to clear the way for candidates who have one foreign-born parent, like President Vicente Fox, whose mother is from Spain.
But the pace of change is slow. The state of Baja California still requires candidates for the state legislature to prove both their parents were native born.
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thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003 Posts: 1212 Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: ap |
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I heard about this on Fox News... and mentioned it on my other post. I didnt cite Fox because 1) many people poo-poo the source and 2) it wasnt the original.
Here we have the original.
Mexico really has chutzpah... doncha think? And here you see the same argument about Central Americans (that they are all thieves and drug-runners, which I have heard a number of times personally) that some Americans make about Mexicans... but when Americans say something like this.. it is racist. Not so with Mexicans it seems.
I thought one had to be 3rd generation Mexican to be president....
Dont forget all the restrictions on opening a business and owning property in Mexico for all legal foreigners as well. If the US wanted to enact anything similar, (not that I think they should) there would be a huge uproar internationally and domestically, again with charges of racism. I suspect the reason is that the US is sensitive to charges of racism and Mexico is not.
If Fox is going to demand "rights" for Mexicans illegally in the US, shouldnt the US demand "rights" for its citizens in Mexico?
However, the AP story is a bit off when they speculate about the cause. Foreign invasion and losing territory (code to anyone who knows history as mostly the fault of the US), certainly contributed to Mexico's xenophobia but they were expelling Chinese as early as the 1830's (see my post on "Mexicans Making Themselves Heard"). You should hear what a number of my students say about the Chinese and the products they send here. (Heck I couldnt send to myself from the US my Xmas ornament collection because some were made in China by UPS) So bigotry towards any foreigners runs really deep. I suspect it has a lot to do with protecting "La Raza." |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Just one point to tangent...
Mexicans working along their southern border to stem the flow of Central Americans is not merely about keeping them out of Mexico. It is about keeping them from using Mexico as transit to the US. This is of great assistance to the US and not something done hypocritically. It makes for a great starting point of co-operation between Mexico and the US (and Canada to some extent) and a model for more North American integration to extend NAFTA into areas of security and labour. |
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thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003 Posts: 1212 Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: right |
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Somehow Guy.... I really doubt that the motivation behind Mexico's southern border control is so altruistic... after all, they are not worried about illegal Central American labor in their country nor possibly making sure that there isnt competition in the US for their own people to get in. |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Altruistic? No need to see things as either pure good or pure evil...not when pragmatism is more commonplace. You don't believe that at the federal level Mexico and the US already cooperate on security in the south? Mexico is far closer to the US than it is to Central America, and that's the position Mexico would like to push further. That means just what the Mexicans have been saying all this time...sit down and hammer it out.
Doesn't that make sense from a US point of view as well? Push the problem zone further south, to Mexico's border....Mexico bears the expense and much of the problem is solved.
Next time there's an orange terror alert in the US, watch what happens in Mexican airports.... |
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thelmadatter
Joined: 31 Mar 2003 Posts: 1212 Location: in el Distrito Federal x fin!
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: evil |
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I dont see where you get the good/evil dichotomy here.
Mexico does what is best for Mexico... I would expect no less. Thats not good or evil... its just human nature. Therefore, the US should look out for its best interests as well... and an uncontrolled border is NOT in the US's best interests. However, if you disagree, we can maybe channel all those immigrants up to Canada.
Cite me a source proving that the US works with Mexico on it southern border. We can even control our own southern border! and over 90% of the illegals crossings of Mexicans.
Ah yes... you are referring to the FBI being in the Mexico City airport 2 Christmases ago (or was it 3?). What does that have to do with immigration? Besides, when the story broke... the Mexican people (rightly so) were incensed... won't happen again, I assure you. |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I dont see where you get the good/evil dichotomy here. |
I say it of you because I think you portray the issues in black and white, while I'm trying hard to point at bilateralism. Mexico doesn't have to be 'altruistic' at all to work with the US on border control. I didn't say anything like that.
An uncontrolled border is not in anyone's best interest. Nor is a completely locked-down border. I've mentioned neither of these and fortunately, no one in power is saying this either.
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Cite me a source proving that the US works with Mexico on it southern border. |
Ack. Ok, give me some time to find it. I read about this years ago. Don't think that I mean there are US border agents working in Chiapas...not like they do on Canadian soil anyway. Mexican and US officials met years ago to put some pressure on Mexico to better patrol its southern flank...related to terrorism and immigration.
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Ah yes... you are referring to the FBI being in the Mexico City airport 2 Christmases ago (or was it 3?). What does that have to do with immigration? Besides, when the story broke... the Mexican people (rightly so) were incensed... won't happen again, I assure you. |
You're right, it won't happen again. The reason it won't is because Mexico is integrated into North American aviation, in a post 9/11 world. They are integrated because of bilateral and multilateral agreements; the same model of agreement that makes things work on other issues such as maritime transit and trade. If there wasn't co-operation on aviation security, do you think any Mexican flights would be able to land in the US? Not a chance.
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we can maybe channel all those immigrants up to Canada. |
Too late. We have a guest worker program with Mexico that is being expanded this year. |
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Samantha

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera
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