Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Hawthorn & CfBT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Oman
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Duffy



Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:20 am    Post subject: Hawthorn & CfBT Reply with quote

Interesting to read that the Min of Higher Ed has split the recruitment for EFL teachers between these companies.

Reading what is on offer from both, it would seem that Hawthorns are offering a better deal. Even more so if you happen to be offered a place in Sohar where the rents are soaring. Not sure what the quality would be given the high prices being asked for relatively modest homes there right now, mmm Confused Perhaps Steppy Boy might like to comment.

What I did notice in both the adverts is that neither company makes it very clear as to whom you are actually contracting with. Hawthorns say that they are sponsering the persons, yet they will be working for the Ministry. CfBT on the other hand say that the person will be working direct for the Ministry They both say that they will be responsible for your welfare but if you look at the package it is so much like that used by the MoHE, it leaves me wondering, maybe others are too Question

Another strange thing is that CfBT are offering 60 days leave per year based on 6 days per month yet Hawthorns are offering the same 60 days based on 5 days a month!!

If anyone is thinking about applying for a position with either of them, perhaps a few well chosed questions might be in order.

Duffy Cool Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Hawthorn & CfBT Reply with quote

Duffy wrote:
Another strange thing is that CfBT are offering 60 days leave per year based on 6 days per month yet Hawthorns are offering the same 60 days based on 5 days a month!!

I'd just be guessing on the question of who is actually your employer. Just let me say that in the past there have been many problems when the recruiter is considered your employer rather than the government.

The leave question is actually quite easy to figure out. CfBT is basing it on the 10 months you teach, while Hawthorn is basing it on the calendar months. Either way it is 60 days and equal, so it doesn't really matter how they calculate it except for those who start at odd points in the year - and it would only have minor effect on the first year.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duffy



Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi VS, Very Happy

Quote:
I'd just be guessing on the question of who is actually your employer.


That was my reaction, they should make absolutely clear who the employer is. I know who I would rather be employed by, despite the ensuing (short lived) beauracratic nightmare that is the task of getting residential visas, driving and liquor licences. In the case of the MoHE I can say that my experience was eased by one of the Omani staff who knew everybody at the ROP station, but I still had to go back 5 times to get the residential card!!

Quote:
The leave question is actually quite easy to figure out.



Well, I thought that it might be based on 10 months and then dismissed it as illogical because they are offering 12 month contracts. Or have I missed something here?? Are CfBT offering a 10 month contract? who will pay the salary for the two "missing" months. As I recall there are 60 days paid leave,is that counted as salary or holiday pay?

Mayhaps CfBT and Hawthorn ought to come on this forum and explain in detail exactly what their contracts mean, before anyone signs up to what, on the face of it, seems to be very strange contract conditions

In my opinion, despite their reputation in Oman, Hawthorn are the better option, shame the positions with them are all in the North though because Salalah is a great place to be!!!

Duffy : Cool : Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Jones



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's an academic contract then you will get the 60 days pay at the end of the ten months when you take the two months holiday.

The difference in the calculation will only affect you when it comes to the pro-rata for those who arrive mid-year. In that case the six days per month worked is in your favour.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steppy-boy



Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: RE: Hawthorn and Sohar Reply with quote

Hi Duffy,

Yes, I would like to make a quick comment regarding the quality of the accommodation that Hawthorn will be offering new teachers with their new contracts. I suspect the quality of housing will not be that high. For 150-200 rials/ month rent, expect only very modest accommodation that is perhaps not to clean either. However, what I don't understand is this: if it is hard to find accommodation in Sohar, how are the Hawthorn people going to do it from Muscat? That is, they need to locate accommodation BEFORE the teachers arrive in Sohar, not scramble around looking when they arrive. It will be interesting to see what happens next academic year and how well the Hawthorn Centre performs regarding placing teachers in suitable, FURNISHED accommodation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yumyumkorea



Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The manager of CFBT in Oman has visited the three colleges for which he will recruit. So 'from the horse's mouth'.

CFBT are responsible for recruiting 'X' amount of teachers for each college. If they do not attain the agreed figure, they incur penalties, it would thus be fair to assume that they will get 'bodies to desks' whatever the quality of those 'bodies'.

The reason that no clear and exact descriptions are given regarding contract details is because these details are probably not yet known. With regard to accomodation for instance, CFBT has no 'agent' in place in any of the three locations.

With regard to leave, the ministry allows 5 days per month, but exact days given to staff vary between colleges even where teachers entered the country on the same day, so if ministry staff are given differing leave allowances depending upon where they work, the same situation may well occur when staff are recruited by agencies.

With regard to money, a two level system will evolve between those hired directly by the ministry (the teachers now in post), and those hired this academic year, and in the future by the agencies. In some locations paid accomodation will be an advantage, in others where housing is cheap, it would be preferable to receive an allowance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say that I wouldn't touch that situation with a barge pole... only for the total beginner or totally desperate...

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duffy



Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info folks. Very Happy

Both Steppy Boy and YumYumKorea make the point about there being no agent, at present at least, to make arrangements for the housing and possibly welfare of the new teacher intake. Let us hope both agencies are taking note of this discussion!!

YYK seems to have some good intelligence on CfBT and leave a few teachers here in Oman more than a little worried. Given that if the recruiting campaign fails to produce the "bodies to desks", those doing the job will again be faced with 30+ classes in the New Academic Year.

Even if they can fill their quota, again as YYK points out,
Quote:
"whatever the quality of those bodies."
There have been a few "Teachers" who have tried and were found to be wanting. They soon took the big silver bird home.

How can at least one, so-called reputable recruiting organisation proudly boast:
Quote:
"20 years experience in the Gulf"
offer positions without having the actual contract in place? I mean, do they really expect people to travel to Oman without any knowllede of the full contract conditions? I cannot imagine any experienced EFL teacher putting one foot on the plane without sight of the contract.

[As VS put it

Quote:
I wouldn't touch that situation with a barge pole... only for the total beginner or totally desperate...


So right VS, so right!!

Any one else like to comment on this??

(MOD edit)

Duffy Sad Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
margaurina



Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:35 am    Post subject: Teaching in Oman Reply with quote

Are these quotes coming from people with experience working in Oman? I do question. Some people no doubt will have a bad experience, in no matter what country. Me for one. A very disorganised recruitment, a very disorgnanised place of work, an accident with a taxi driver, and another with an emergency service vehicle to start with - these really set me back, and then with the place where I work not being very organised about settling in teachers, not having enough teachers - yes, it was very difficult for a while. Depending on where you live now and whether it is city lights you seek, and it depends on how organised the receiving country is, I think you will find that it takes 3 - 6 months to fully settle into any country in any case. I have worked in several countries and I know this has been by settling in time. Get over the first three months and all seems to start to fall into place. Frankly, the organisation of the workplace is improving slowly but surely. It takes patience and endurance to overcome the desire to leave, as some people did. Since many people do not have that, it can prove to be too problematic for them.

This is a conservative country. Living in towns can be a problem if you like the bright city lights. But if you can live with yourself, you can find a way to settle in to living in countryside Oman. It has its beauty - not flat desert, and it is heaven for me to go to Muscat once a month!

Furthermore, although the students do not have a high english standard, I found it generally quite rewarding to work here - more rewarding than in any other country, in truth. People in the general community too are also very nice. The Omani staff are generally quite nice to work for.

Culturally, people try to talk to us in English, offer to help in any way, and mostly leave us to get on with our lives.

I am returning, not because I am desparate but because I am a teacher who likes my job and although it is very different to working in a western civilisation, it has some rewards which I am so glad I had the chance to experience. These are my enduring memories. So, right, right! is wrong! wrong!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
margaurina



Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Hawthorn & CfBT Reply with quote

[quote]Hawthorns say that they are sponsering the persons, yet they will be working for the Ministry. CfBT on the other hand say that the person will be working direct for the Ministry.
Quote:


I think what you will find is that the CfBT ad says that teachers will be working with the ministry directly - that is we will be working in the Colleges, NOT 'for'. All other matters will be handled by CfBT.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duffy



Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Teaching in Oman Reply with quote

Margaurina,

Quote:
Are these quotes coming from people with experience working in Oman?


I can certainly say that in the case of myself and Steppy Boy we both speaking from sometimes happy, sometimes bitter experience.

I would fully agree that Oman has a lot going for it, yes it always takes time to settle into any new position. What we are saying is that there is enough hassle out there without the so-called "Agencies" making it harder for the teacher to do his or her job.

If the comments we have made to date are not brought out on a public forum such as this, then it could be that less experienced EFL teachers may sign up to a contract where the conditions are not being adhered to by the agencies, who lets face it are there for the money. I have personal experience of a contract in which I was treated as a "nuisance" by the agent because I merely wanted a full copy of the contract and not the abbreviated version which, because of that very lack of experience, I foolishly signed up with.

:Duffy Cool Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Teaching in Oman Reply with quote

margaurina wrote:
I am returning, not because I am desparate but because I am a teacher who likes my job and although it is very different to working in a western civilisation, it has some rewards which I am so glad I had the chance to experience. These are my enduring memories. So, right, right! is wrong! wrong!

What I have found over the years is that there is a huge variance in the amount of BS that people can tolerate. Cool What drives some people to run to the airport in frustration will barely be noticed by others. I think that often this is a matter of age, the number of countries one has taught in, and the amount of experience with the local culture.

In every ME country where I taught, my decision to go or to stay was driven mostly be whether the pleasure of teaching the students (ALWAYS the best part in every country, but especially in Oman) outweighed the incompetance level of management. Laughing

I have always felt that Oman was the perfect 'retirement' teaching job. The key to choosing the right job there (or anywhere) is knowing your own tolerance levels and picking the place that meets your needs best.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duffy



Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I have always felt that Oman was the perfect 'retirement' teaching job. The key to choosing the right job there (or anywhere) is knowing your own tolerance levels and picking the place that meets your needs best.


Once again, wise words from an obviously very wise and experienced person.

Well VS, I am looking at this posting being my 'retirement' teaching job. I could not have found a better place to be for these final years. (hopefully). My experiences in Turkey and other places, over the last few years, make me feel I have deserved this "oasis of teaching". Oh yes there are the hassles, as with all jobs, but where else can you find a more friendly place, where you are not treated as a second class citizen. as I felt I was in KSA.
This is a place where each "Salamalekum" is genuine and always gets the heartfelt response. a place where the soul settles easily because of the magnificent scenery, the relaxed attitude of the average Omani and food to die for. Oh I could go on, but you have been here VS, you know it as do I.

Margaurina, I am sure you have your reasons for leaving and I truly hope you find happiness and satisfaction, but be honest, will there not always be a little bit of longing to return here??

Duffy Smile Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the kind words Duffy. I try to make sense most of the time. Laughing I think Margaurina was staying in Oman or did I misunderstand? I thought that she was there and happy with her situation.

The big question mark in this thread is whether these new agency hires will end up with decent housing and who is their employer per their contract. There seems to be unanswered questions for the new hires.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duffy



Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Oman

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi VS,

I may have misunderstood Maugarinas's posts, but I thought she was leaving Oman, ah well, mayhaps we will hear one way or the other.

As regards this thread, I agree with what you say, I just wish that someone from the two agencies would post saying exactly what the position is regarding the contracts. With the amount of hits this thread has stirred up I would say it was in their best interest to say something.

"Say nothing and the world will ignore you, speak aloud and all the world will hear"

Duffy Smile Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Oman All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China