Job Discussion Forums

[Ozone]

Marry a native.

[fat_chris]

Wolf,

Your response illustrates why I like Chinese. After learning the basics, a laowai can teach himself reading and writing. I hired a tutor primarily to improve my speaking and listening, correct my written essays and answer any questions. I told her she could spare teaching me new characters as I can do that myself.

My feeble opinion, if it matters:

I strongly believe that an EFL teacher in a foreign country should learn the basics of the local language and be able to at least order food, read a menu, tell a taxi driver directions to get home, and engage in very basic small talk ("Man, this is great weather today. OK, gotta run!").

What blew my mind were the countless businessmen I encountered who were living in the PRC for 7+ years with Chinese wives and couldn't say ****! They were amazed at my level after three years as if I were some genius: no, I'm just very average.

[fat_chris]

Suggestion:

If one can't find any locals to talk to, one can talk to himself or statues like many of the students on my campus do.

[denise]

fat_chris,

I completely agree that there is a basic minimum that we should learn. (I'm nowhere near that level, but give me time!!) I think there are three reasons:

1) practicality--it's damn hard to get around, go shopping, find the correct bus, pay bills, etc. without understanding the language

2) empathy with students--several people have pointed this one out. As we struggle to comprehend, we understand what they are going through.

3) respect for the host culture--me being a guilt-ridden American, I do not want to fall into the trap of the "arrogant American" (or Westerner, foreigner, whatever... there's no need to only single out my own kind here!) who always expects and assumes that everyone will understand and speak impeccable English.

Everyone here has told me that it'll take about a year for me to get the "basics" of Japanese, and after that, it'll get much easier. I have, however, met a few folks who have been here far longer than that and haven't picked very much up. Lack of motivation? Lack of need (wives/girlfriends/etc. always around to translate)?

d

[dduck]

[denise]

[shmooj]

[Celeste]

I would have to agree with shmooj. It is really hard to find Japanese adults that want to converse in Japanese. Most of my conversations in Japanese have to do with the classes I am guest teaching in that day. The teachers are totally relieved that I have been taking Japanese lessons, and that they can convey basic information to me about the classes in Japanese, but when it comes to actual conversation, a lot of them prefer to try out their English on me. The children are always asking me questions in Japanese, and I try to translate all of their questions into English for them and then answer the questions in English and Japanese.(I am there as the English teacher, after all.) Most of the Japanese people who I am friends with speak fairly good English, and while I try to speak Japanese as much as I can with them, I don't want them to think that I am "using" them as language partners.

For me, the key to learning Japanese has been going to a weekly language class with a real trained Japanese teacher who uses a good textbook, and sound teaching methodologies. after I'd been taking classes for about 8 months and my husband had been studying on his own for 8 months, I finally convinced him to come to class with me. While he was able to read the Kanji (chinese character) headlines in the newspaper, he wasn't able to understand the waitresses in restaurants. Now that he has been taking classes too, he is much more confident in his listening and speaking.

Ironically, we used to live in Korea, and before we went there, I took Korean Language as an elective in university. I could read and write and speak basic korean. I was a wife/translator. My husband never learned how to speak Korean, because I was always translating for him. When we first came to Japan, I couldn't speak ANY Japanese. NONE. ZIP. For the first few weeks we were here, my husband kept asking me "What did he say?" every time someone spoke to us. I had to reply "I don't know, something in Japanese!" And he would get this incredibly frustrated look like I was not translating the Japanese for him on purpose.

Now that we are both learning Japanese and he is confident enough to try communicating with people on his own, without making me translate, I am feeling a lot freer. I can just socialize with people around us (if it is a social situation) or focus on the things that interest me (if we are doing something like travelling) or even rely on him to help with errands like buying groceries, sending packages, paying bills, etc. I think he feels better about it too.

So- to all the guys out there who rely on wives (be they native speaker or non-native speaker wives) to translate: go out there and pay for some language lessons. It will make your life much better.

[scot47]

I thinbk access to televison is a great aid in learning any foreign language. As a youth I leraned French and German at school, but did not have access to tv or films. (I am ancient.)

In more recent years I have learned one of the slavonic languages. One of my tools was to watch tv programmes. Children's TV is good. So is the News.


To those who can't or won't learn the language of their host country I say:"You are in the wrong job. If you cannot acquire a language under optimum learning conditions, how can you possibly teach a foreign language ?"

[denise]

[fat_chris]

I agree with scot47. Naturally, being in country is the most optimal way to learn a language. Just step out your front door and you immediately hear and see the language. The next step is up to you.

The problem is the same in China as in Japan. People (read: students) would only want to speak English with me. I found that it would have been easy to just cave in and speak only English all the time but I would hold my ground. I would only speak English to my own students and colleagues, both in and out of class. Many students that I didn't teach would come up to me and insist, but I would turn the tables: "hey, I want to practice my Chinese now, OK?" If they would ignore this, then I would blow them off. It's not the nicest thing to do, but then again, I am also learning a language. If everyone wants to practice their English with me all the time, when do I get the chance to practice my Chinese? I had to be fair to myself and sometimes turn away the "English vultures."

I found it was easiest to practice with non-academic types: restaurant staff, drivers and custodians. I found these people to be quite receptive to my efforts in learning the language and provided me with the greatest encouragement to further my learning.

[guest of Japan]

In response to Scot47, I can't find any teachers as good as me.

[Wolf]

Okay, it's "respond to scot47 day."

Multimedia is a great way to learn a foreign langugae. Take a DVD of a non English movie. Watch the non-English dub while listening to non-English subtitles. I did this in Japan and it worked wonders. I bought movies I liked. I'd sit down with a dictonary and a notebook and write down every word I didn't understand. I'd look them up and write them down. Then I'd watch the movie again.

If my life in China has a "Take II," I'll probably try harder. If I leave after my contract is up in 10 months (also possible) then the loss will not be great. The thing is, unless learning Chinese gives me some sort of "foreign cloaking device" that makes me look Chinese, then it won't solve the bigger problems in my day to day life as it stands now.

I've tried to learn three foreign languages. One I was sort of sucessful at. One I actually put in the effort and it shows. One I gave up on for the time being.

I'm blessed in that my students more or less understand me if I'm careful - so not knowing their langauge doesn't hinder my ability to teach (like it did in Japan for my first year).

[Steiner]

[grahamb]

Steiner, I'm not surprised. Get your hair cut and take that hat off!
On second thoughts, It would be easier to take the hat off before getting your hair cut. What the hell, it's Friday.