Job Discussion Forums

slug93 · Joined: 07 Jan 2006 Posts: 38

I'm Vietnamese-American and spent all my life in the US, BUT I have lots of family in VN AND we do business with family/business in VN for over 20 yrs. The observation of the negative aspect of VN is sad to say, is fairly accurate, mirroring the same IF NOT worse observation that my OWN friends/family encounter.

You would think that family support family. In VN, even with family, let alone strangers/friends, you always have to watch your back. We had family members in VN rat to the gov't on OTHER family memebers in VN for business reasons.

As for food, my parents who spent half their adult life in VN, before coming to the US. Told me(after their trip back), VN food in the US is better, the recipes are the same, but the raw ingredient that VN people/restaurant have access to in the US is of better quality than in VN. Another thing to watch for especially at restaurant is lack of hygien in food prepration. Cook food is OK, but salads should avoid, because many restaurant don't wash salad properly. Many of my friends that visit got stomach problem from eating salad/vegetable at restaurant and spent a few days over a toilet. After a while your body does become accustom to the local "bacteria".

dirt/dust is a huge problem, one popular item that is sought after by the locals is moist baby wipes, to wipe their faces after being outside.

I first I thought that moving back to VN for work(teaching and other business) would be a comfortable living(great food, family, social, business, etc.,). now I realize that, it wont be paradise. Dealing with all different issues and climate will not be fun, I'm still going but I realize it'll business opp't outside of teaching will be require more work BECAUSE of trust issues. After spending time in South America, I would prefer living/working in COL/Peru instead of VN.

EDIT: I know my post sound very negative.. On a positive side I have TONS of friends/family that took vacation to VN and LOVED it, they go back every year. The issues I mention, only really affect people with family ties to VN rather than casual tourist. Of course speaking the langauge, you see thru more than "foreigners" that does not speak VN. Viet Khieu has less of some problems(less visible/public profile) and more of other problems(family issues/extortion) than other foreigners. But many posters on this board are foreigners that stay longer than the normal tourist, so you guys start to see the "negative" aspect.

Snaff · Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 142

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Micro67 · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 297 Location: HCMC, Vietnam

Lots of people are leaving - but what concerns me is that it is getting more and more difficult for the 'little' guys. It seems like the average, working ex-pat is being pushed aside in expectation of a huge influx of wealthy tourists and investors, that aren't likely to come.

william wallace · Joined: 14 May 2003 Posts: 2869 Location: in between

The first few things that jumped out at me : Most of the posting were from people with very few postings/ brand spanking new ? Not too few who were either juvenile in attitude and/or age, having the Mod coming in twice ? But the main observation being that either this thread accomodated either only thse who are totally disenchanted with VN, or VN really seems to have NOTHING going for it.
Bad food
Too strict
Too many touts
Too much cheating
Too much xenophobia
Heck, even the Vietnamese-American agreed with the negative postings.

Porlestone · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 95 Location: Asia

the response I'd make to the last post is. Well I can say that most of the 'negative' posts that I've seen on here are either mostly, or generally true. On the flip side, the occasional positive posts I've seen, seem so unrealistic that it makes you wonder if they are really in the country. The whole "I love it here and would never even think of going any place else for eternity". Very unrealistic.

Porlestone · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 95 Location: Asia

another reply.... In response to the perceptive post at the top by slug, and a comment by snaff which he deleted. Yah these people here are just way too nosey, gossipy, and too volatile. These are the reasons of why I don't even get involved with hardly anyone here. I mean I stop off at a local street restaurant and then you start to get the "yo! yo!" but I'm not interested in talking. Next thing you know you can't even walk down their street without them heckling you. Far too many "traditions" that make their society so rigid and unflexible. Too much emphasis on those "traditions" to give you any sense of basic human freedom.

And yah they really go to town and start gossiping about nearly anything. Really makes you feel like not trusting, nor feeling relaxed and yourself, around them. (one or two nice people here or there, but certainly minimal).

slug93 · Joined: 07 Jan 2006 Posts: 38

This weekend, my brother's family was in town. He's been to VN several time the past year to visit our grandma. He told me this story...

when you goto the hotel(he took his family to Vung Tau) they always want your passport to keep. But no way was he going to give some dinky hotel his passport. So he told them he dindn't have it, but he has his California Driver License, will they take it? It created a mini-dilemna for the hotel manager, red-tape vs profit. In the end, profit won out, and they accept the driver licenses.

Talking with my male Vietnames-american friends who go there for vacation, they love VN. Because they're on vacation to visit family and meet girls. So they don't worry about day-to-day problems. Obvisously, vacation in VN is great while LIVING in VN has it share of problems.

here's something funny about the gov't..i was writing to my penpal in VN. She asked me if I read some VN ghost story, i replied, "no, why?".

It�s a CD about ghost story I really like it. They tell a lot stories about the ghost and you will be scare when hear them. You should try I think you will like them. I have heard 7 stories about them. I really love to hear all ghost stories of them but you know in Viet Nam you can�t find them because the government forbidden so I often ask my friend to find for me in America. My friend told me you can download them on the internet but I didn�t know the address so you ask your friend maybe they will know and show you the address.

I can't believe the govt censor it! LOL!

j.jake · Joined: 22 Jan 2006 Posts: 12

i would agree with Micro67. if youre thinking of Vietnam as an easy place to teach english / find work, you will be disappointed. the good old days of walking into a school and getting instantly hired for good pay is OVER !. the market seems to be shrinking and the competition is increasing. it seems the long term teachers (with qualifications) are getting and keeping the good jobs. that means very few hours and low pay available for the "little guys" or the newbies. thats why after 5 years teaching here, im heading to Korea. from what ive read here, and heard from friends, this is the land of opportunity these days

antran1976 · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 10

I personally believe that one needs to have a true heart and/or a genuine commitment when it comes to teaching and living in Vietnam in order to enjoy the experience of being there. You can't be half-hearted (this goes for other things as well) and be truly happy at where you are or at what you do. Ask yourself these two basic questions: 1) Why am I teaching in Vietnam and not in other countries? 2) Do I teach in Vietnam because I like to teach there or because of the money (or something else!)? If you honestly answer these questions and then go through a thorough self-analysis you will probably see why you are (or why you are not) happy in Vietnam. Just some of my personal thoughts!

An V. Tran

There is a price for everything, regardless of its size or magnitude!

Blade · Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 44

sphinx · Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 7

slug93 · Joined: 07 Jan 2006 Posts: 38

last week, i was waiting for the taxi on the street corner w/ my friend. The corner was on a street that was very well lighted and had lots of people eating at outside restaraunt nearby. then out of the blue, a motobike w/ 2 people drive pass and SNATCHES her purse! it all happen less than 2 seconds! neither of us were paying attention, so it caught us by suprise. my friend didnt even cry out until a few seconds after. in her purse she had money, cellphone, keys(motobike/house), and ID papers. she thought she could call the robbers and pay them for her keys/paper, but of course they dont pick up..

I found out later what you're SUPPOSE to do in these situation is..GO STRAIGHT to the local police station IN that neighborhood. many times if you give a "gift" to the cops, they will get back SOME or ALL the stuff for you. the longer you wait, the harder it becomes.. of course you give a little gift to the cops first, then a bigger gift when if/when they retrieve
your stuff..

I also found out that there are TWO rules n VN regarding crime.. crime against locals with NO connection and crimes against foreigners/rich locals.. the first, basically if you have money, you MAYBE able to get some stuff back. the second, the cops HAVE to get to the bottomo of it, especially if the victim is a FOREIGNER.. VN govt is very sensitive to the fact of crime against foreigners.. they dont want a bad image.. IF you are a victim.. go DIRECTLY to the police THEY HAVE TO HELP YOU.. now, they might not get ALL your stuff back, but they will generally get your important stuff, passport.. again time is key when reporting the crime.. the faster the better. this goes for rich locals also.. they have "pull/connections/money" to get the police(cong an) off their ass..

ALso, in HCM, there are police wearing green khaki uniforms, these are TOURIST police(they look different then the other green clothed police). they patrol areas that tourist go alot, diamond plaza, ben tren market, etc., i was told they actually have the authority to beat(w/ the billy clubs) the criminals that are stupid enough to prey on foreigners(and get caught).

i have another friend that is a govt reporter, one day, she was going to the market n her motobike with her backpack and 6 million dong. she but the backpack in the trunk of the motobike. while parking her bike at on shop(she was only about 4-5 meters from the bike). a little girl and older girl came up the bike and started picking the trunk of the motobike.. it was a few seconds before she saw it.. so by the time my friend ran to her bike, the little girl took off w/ the backpack, but my friend manage to grab the older girl and trying to hold her. But the girl got away, and started running off and getting away. my friend ran after her, but two more accomplice got n her way(by "accidently" blocking her path).. so everyone got away.

My friend was furious! but she knew the drill, she went to the police station(which was located near the market). she went and immediately filled out the paperwork and ID the thief(little girl) becuase there was a police foto of the girl n the police station. they basically said TOO bad, that they couldnt do anything. She knew they were lying..
during this time time another lady walked n and start yelling at the police also.. the other lady was robbed couple days ago also and the police didnt do anything.

that was when she threaten THEM! she basically told them that she works for so-and-so station as a reporter and can have her giam doc = director called the the police director. they better grab the thief and get her money back. unless they wanted to be ON the street unemploy. they told her to come back tomorrow.. which she did.. they return to her bag, ID, keys, etc., BUT NO 6 million dong! she was pissed, she demand her money! so a day later they hauled n the little girl(who kept insisting she had nothing to do with it). eventually they grab the older sister's motobike and the thief's family paid 3 million dong to get the bike bike, and my friend gave the cops $500,000 dong as a thank you gift. BUT she recognize that if she wasn't who she was, and didnt have the "pull" then she would have been "screwed"..

moral of the story? be foreigner or local w/ connections n vn..

BTW, my friend from the first story, went to the govt office to get her paperwork done... she did have to "grease" a few palms.. to get things done faster.. standard procedure n VN..

Mr Wind-up Bird · Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 196

Very interesting thread this, as it appears that many of you working in Vietnam seem to come from a country where:

* there is no crime
* on the rare occasions someone does have something stolen, however small, the police drop whatever they're working on and devote all their resources to cracking the case
* the government & police are 100% honest and scrupulous. There is no corruption
* there is no traffic, pollution or noise
* no-one ever gets angry, raises their voice, or gets into fights
* employers never, ever treat their staff badly
* unqualified foreigners can enter the country and begin work without any immigration controls or work permits, and don't have to pay tax
* no-one is ever ripped off by a shop, restaurant or taxi driver
* everyone loves tourists and foreign workers

Can someone please PM me and tell me where this country is, as it sounds a great place to live. Until then, I'll stick with Vietnam, where I've now lived for nearly four years, and which bears little resemblance to much of the nonsense in this thread. I thang yeewwww Very Happy

Tue · Joined: 31 Mar 2006 Posts: 59

Mr Wind-up Bird · Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 196

Tue:
I'm not Vietnamese, I'm English. Been here nearly 4 years, Vietnamese wife, and have experienced very few of the problems people complain about on this thread.

Sure, VN isn't perfect, and yes I do sometimes get overcharged because I'm a foreigner, but it's usually just a couple of thousand VND, & given the huge disparity between my salary & that of the woman selling me oranges, I don't moan about it. Yes, behind those friendly smiles lurk greedy, materialistic hearts, but give me a false smile rather than the surly, what you lookin' at scowls that greeted me everywhere last time I went back to the UK.

Had two motorbike accidents while I've been here, & on each occasion the other party (VNese both times) has apologised. Again, maybe I've been lucky. And I've never heard anyone abuse my wife, & my VNese is good enough to understand.

As for the racism issue, it's worth remembering that as regards immigration, VN is probably where Britain was in the 1950s. That first wave of Asians/Caribbeans suffered appalling racism - abused in the streets, signs up banning them from bars, hotels, guest houses etc. Personally I've never experienced any hostility or abuse and have generally felt welcome pretty much everywhere I've been.