Job Discussion Forums

[arcueil_1]

Samantha: I know Mexico and Mexican society relatively well. I would be going there for the country, in fact, not really the money. (ESL is rarely a lucrative thing regardless of location.) However, I do have commitments and responsibilities that demand a certain income; my desire for a "high" salary is by no means a petty one. Unfortunately, Mexico would not come close to meeting these needs.

FreddyM: CalArts is the premier art school in the US, not some Mickey Mouse degree mill. I have a BFA and almost a masters. I speak *several* languages and I'm fluent in two. I have plenty of experience in ESL, with translation service and taught college for seven years in the states as well, etc. Our qualifications seem to be rather similar, I suppose. I have a question for you: With your qualifications, why would you work for such low money? Is Mexico *that* great? What is so attractive about the country that can persuade a person to earn several times less of what they could be making in some other countries, some of which are very good, such as Japan, Italy, France or Spain? I think these are important questions and I would welcome everyone relevant to answer these. I'm very interested in finding out why.

ls650: Hi there. Working in Asia sucks in many ways. (It's wonderful in other ways too though.) However, salaries tend to be much higher than in Latin America, obviously. Perhaps the only exceptions would be Chile and Argentina, assuming one is working at a very good university or international language school. I would never go to Korea because the society over there is awful, generally speaking. In some ways, Taiwan and Japan are like that as well. However, Japan is the best one to work in, by far; salaries are very good and if one is experienced in Asia, Japan should be no problem. I'm considering Japan seriously. An *entry level* job there pays 250,000 yen, which is something like 2,500 US. Not bad. I can easily make 250,000+ there. If I had the CELTA (which I plan to get next year), I could get 75% of the best jobs there.

Anyhow, it sucks that I'm not going to be able to go to Mexico, but such is life. Perhaps in the very distant future, when Mexico has better salaries, I'll give it shot.

[jseens]

There's more to life than money.

[arcueil_1]

Really... I didn't know. Please read the posts carefully before posting non-sequiturs. Thank you.

[Samantha]

To give a fair comparison when talking money, Europe and countries such as Japan have a much higher cost of living than Mexico, therefore our lower wages go further. Many of us walk, ride scooters or take a 6 or 7 peso bus ride to our jobs. I have never been more than a 10 minute or 15 minute commute to work (alongside the ocean) I wouldn't trade that for commuting long distances across big cities or on freeways in inclement weather for more money. Been there.

After a long hot day in class you can still grab a beer for under $1.00 USD, walk out into your backyard, pick a mango, leap(?) into the hammock and feel pretty good about life. And one can still buy a decent little house here for under $30,000.00 USD....$20,000.00 or even less if you want to have some sweat equity. Oh yeah, by other standards (even in Mexico) the pay sucks in my location, bigtime. I learned long ago to think in pesos. And I would never recommend coming to Mexico with outstanding financial commitments elsewhere. It could ruin your time here just thinking about it.

[ls650]

I spent a year working in Asia. I was able to save a lot more money there than I can in Mexico - but I thought the quality of life there was not very good. I enjoy my life in Mexico much more than Asia. I had to choose between quality of life or saving money, and I chose quality.

I don't agree with your comment about earning "several times" the salary in Europe. I've talked with perhaps a dozen TEFLers who have worked in Europe, and they all agreed that it was extremely difficult to find well-paying jobs.

Best of luck in your job search.

[arcueil_1]

If one lives frugally in Japan, one should be able to save at least $500 (US) every month. In Europe, one could probably save a few hundred.

I have no outstanding commitments as such, as Samantha said, just certain responsibilities, mostly for the future -- I have plans much larger than being an ESL teacher, in the long run. However, and I definitely had thought about this: buying a good house in Mexico would be super. In fact, that would have been my ultimate goal regarding Mexico. I completely understand where Samantha is coming from on this matter. Picking mangos sounds great too... Brews in China are at least about as cheap though. That said, the only truly good beer here is Tsing Tao. The rest can't even compare to a Negra Modelo or Dos XX. (Corona is terrible, IMO, and it's available here [along with the similar but slightly better Sol], albeit at a rather high price.)

I have to agree with ls650 about the quality of life thing. Asia is very hard to enjoy except for the hardiest, as the quality of life often leaves much, and I mean much to be desired. Mexico is surely better, thus my interest in going there. It's not the money, it's the quality of life that interests me. Alas, the money is much too low for me.

FreddyM: I'm still waiting... get back when you get a chance.

[FreddyM]

[MELEE]

Mexico, and most of Latin America is a land where official papers talk, experience is the "soft" part of your resume here. People what to see papers with seals and pomp and unrelated BA and no TEFL cert is not at all impressive to this mindset. I'm not advocated it, I'm just letting you know how it is. If you had a PhD in Linguistics, Translation studies, Second Language Acquisition, or possibly just plain English, I could possibly see you getting 20,000 at a university. Then once you were established you could apply to the national research council and probably get an additional stipen to support your research bringing your income up another ten or twelve thousand or so. But without the papers, to back up your experience, the best you will do is 10,000 tops.

Your not wrong in your $150 to $200 an hour is do-able asumption. Where you are wrong is multiplying that by 40 hrs. You can get that much doing private classes or business classes, by the hour. you'd teach 2 or at most 3 classes a day no garuntee from month to month of having the same number of hours. No outside of class time paid. Or you can go the "salaried" route and get a set monthly salary, which is garunteed from month to month. But brings your hourly wage way down.

In terms of benefits. Mexico is great on benefits, but they are quite different than those many EFL teachers are used to. Flight? Furnished Apt? Free Internet? No. How about, free day care, no interest housing loans, your parents on your health plan, retirement benefits, etc. So of us are doing very well in Mexico, but we're in it for the long run. Like Freddy, I think I live so much better here than I would in other parts of the world on much less. I worked in Japan for 18 months, I loved it and had a great time and came home with 10,000 dollars in savings. But I lived the life of a recent graduate there. Here I've become an adult, a mother, a wife and a professional. (those are not in any particular order)

For someone in your position with your experience, but lack of formal qualifications, you would do best in Mexico self employed. There are ways to do that legally, but start up might be slow, especially in a big city where there are established language schools and translation services. But in a small city where there is virturally no competition you could do very well.

If you are interested in Guadalajara, the UAG has an MA in translation that can be completed in 1 year. And with that you could ask for a lot more money for yourself.

[Taurus]

Well, I spent the 2004-2005 school year teaching in Guadalajara and had two roomates working at Linguas. The owners were nice enough but let me tell you they both worked long hours for a low salary. In my opinion, the worst part was the long hours which prevented them from truely being able to enjoy their Mexican experience including long Saturday classes that usually killed their weekends. I will try to get them to post or PM.

[arcueil_1]

FreddyM & MELEE: Thanx very much for the posts. That's a lot of good information. I'll think about all that. Thanx.

Taurus: Any information from past employees re. Linguas would be great. Please keep in mind that I don't want the thread to go into something really negative about the institute though. They have been professional toward me and the salary vs. amount of work/qualification issue seems to be a Mexican problem in general, not really a problem exclusive to Linguas or other places of work. Although its very unlikely that I'll go to Mexico at this time, I have no real reason to criticize Linguas. Anyway, if your friends post, please let them know to try to keep everything as objective as they can.

[cybercutie]

Hey there,

I worked at Linguas for 6 months, and I must say although I did work long hours, I did enjoy my experience and have a great amount of respect for the owners of the school.

The pay was average for what everyone with my skills were making (Business Diploma, no TEFL certificate but some teaching experience), but I must say I don't know of anywhere in GDL that would pay triple that (even if you do have much higher qualifications) unless you went to a private Catholic school.

The hours are spread out and weekend work is expected, but it is in a great location and close to parks and malls. If you are going to learn Spanish and get some experience both culturally and educationally, its a great place to go. If you want to make lots of money and be able to travel at a moments notice, I don't think Mexico in general is probably your best choice. I think most people go there for the love of the Latin culture, not the compensation.

[arcueil_1]

cybercutie: I agree with what you said. You brought up a very interesting and unexpected point -- question: I went to a private Catholic school (Colegio Marista Guaynabo, a Marian school in the Caribbean) during two of my high school years; do you think that would have any influence at all?

[countdown]

Just to clarify ESL salaries in Europe. The average salary in Spain and Italy (not sure about France) is 1000 euros/month after taxes - you can't save and living well isn't easy as Europe is extremely expensive.
I'm currently in my 2nd year in Vietnam, HCMC, and am able to save quite a bit and live well and travel. However, foreigners can't buy property here, nor can they buy cars or brand new motorbikes, the language is extremely difficult as it's tonal (one word may have up to 6 meanings depending on how you say it) and you are reminded daily that this is a socialist/communist country.
Mexico is our next destination so I read this forum daily and as someone kindly pointed out - you can buy a decent property there for well under $100,000. We are attracted by the weather, the culture, the language, the proximity to Canada and the very real possibility of long term /permanent residency there.
Hope you find what you're looking for!!!

[arcueil_1]

countdown: Thank you for the post. It sounds like Vietnam is much more strict than the PRC. In China I have the right to buy just about anything -- a car, motorcycle or house would be no problem. One just has to go through the legal process, which is not all that hard. Buying a bike is relatively affordable but a car (unless a so-so local brand) or a house (unless out in the styx) is not such a great idea, unless you have plenty of throw away cash. (Houses in China are actually pretty crappy, even in many of the better places, at least outside of Shanghai and possibly Beijing and some areas of Guangzhou; they tend to deteriorate fast and there are no rules with teeth that will prevent someone from suddenly screwing your neighborhood by planting a giant, filthy and smelly farmer's market/abattoir right next to your expensive new house/building [in other words, your new 400,000K apartment might not be worth nearly as much a year later; many, many places actually depreciate because of such chaotic city planning]; also, neighborhoods tend to be even more noisy than those in Mexico.)

Regarding Europe, you are right, but to my knowledge 1K Euro per month would apply mostly to entry level gigs in the lesser schools. I think the better jobs at the better schools pay considerably higher, especially if you have the all-important CELTA (or perhaps the Trinity). With that in mind, one could save a bit. Europe is part of my plan but a few years ahead -- I still need the CELTA, more experience, etc. in order to command a decent salary there.

Anyhow, if someone offered me 18-21K in Mexico, I'd be there in a flash. For now, I'll keep trying Mexico, I guess, and Japan.

MELEE: The idea of an MA in Translation at UAG in 1 year sounds very good. Do you know more about it or have a direct link to information on it? (BTW, please excuse my ignorance, but I'm not sure what UAG stands for. Is that University of Guadalajara?)

cybercutie: Please let me know about the private Catholic school question I had when you get back. Thanx.

[MELEE]

UAG
Universidad Autonoma de Guadalajara. A private university, inspite of the name.
Here's a link: http://www.google.com.mx