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newyorkbunny
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Tottori
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 Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Yawarakaijin,
You are being very childish now. I am more than happy to have a grown-up conversation but put-downs and assumptions are beneath me and I believe most here.
Thank you for your time in responding. It is time to leave this one now and leave you to it. |
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newyorkbunny
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Tottori
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
Jesus certainly mixed with people of all classes and ethnicities. Did he only heal the rich? What about the Samaritan woman? Don't base your prejudices on the Bible, please.
Jesus never said to separate the wheat from the chaff. God will do this, it is called judgement. Who are we to judge, glad that job has been taken. |
Jesus certainly did not mix only with the rich. Please read my post properly. I don't care about money, I care about associating with those with good morals and who want to better themselves. I don't mix with people of a different moral code to mine. Thanks for the reponse although being called prejudiced is not very nice. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Yes Bunny you are absolutely correct. I hope when I grow up and learn how to be an adult I will also learn to seperate people by class based on something as meaningless as a little ink under the skin. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not a very religious man as you can probably tell but I find it utterly repugnant that you use the bible to justify your predjudices. |
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Reisender
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| newyorkbunny wrote: |
| Jesus told his followers to "separate the wheat from the chaff". I would not mix with people who clearly had a different moral compass to my own. |
Jesus never told anybody that. What you wrote was a paraphrase of what John the Baptist claimed his successor (presumably Jesus) would do. (Matthew 3:11-12) Even John the Baptist doesn't advise you to make your own distinctions between wheat and chaff though as he says that's to be left up to Christ. If I'm terribly wrong and there is a God, it would indeed be more prudent to leave all the sorting up to him, no? What if you're wrong about where the line should be drawn? A lifetime of sneering at wheat you mistook as chaff will take you to the same place me and the other atheists are going surely. I doubt God will give you a free pass because of your moralising and handwringing either.
You're confused about your own religion's dogma and scripture. Take it as an indication that you should question your beliefs a little more closely. |
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newyorkbunny
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Tottori
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Reisender wrote: |
| newyorkbunny wrote: |
| Jesus told his followers to "separate the wheat from the chaff". I would not mix with people who clearly had a different moral compass to my own. |
Jesus never told anybody that. What you wrote was a paraphrase of what John the Baptist claimed his successor (presumably Jesus) would do. (Matthew 3:11-12) Even John the Baptist doesn't advise you to make your own distinctions between wheat and chaff though as he says that's to be left up to Christ. If I'm terribly wrong and there is a God, it would indeed be more prudent to leave all the sorting up to him, no? What if you're wrong about where the line should be drawn? A lifetime of sneering at wheat you mistook as chaff will take you to the same place me and the other atheists are going surely. I doubt God will give you a free pass because of your moralising and handwringing either.
You're confused about your own religion's dogma and scripture. Take it as an indication that you should question your beliefs a little more closely. |
Oops, back to bible study for me. Thank you for pointing out my innaccuracy.
However, I can't fathom how only mixing with those with good morals is inherently wrong. I'm sorry, but I've always mixed with those with certain morals and class. I shall not stop now nor will I do so in the future. If this is offensive to anyone, then so be it! 
Thank you again.
ps. Let's not make this in to a huge religious argument. That does not interest me. I would just prefer if people did not take the Lord's name in vein. That's all. Then it became all a bit pointless. I'm not a religious 'nut', however, I am religious. That's my choice as that is of my family's. My fiance's family are Buddhist (as is he). I am more than happy that they stay that way. |
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Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Maybe your spouse would be familiar with the saying, and I believe its by Lao Tzu:
When beauty is seen as beauty
Ugliness is created
When good is seen as good
Evil is created
Think about that one for a while. |
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Reisender
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| newyorkbunny wrote: |
| However, I can't fathom how only mixing with those with good morals is inherently wrong. I'm sorry, but I've always mixed with those with certain morals and class. I shall not stop now nor will I do so in the future. If this is offensive to anyone, then so be it! |
And again, I would suggest the moral code you have adopted for yourself is incompatible with the basic tenets of the religion you espouse. Jesus says not only to mix with those who you believe to be of a lower class or morality but to love them. Serve them indeed.
I can understand that you don't want a religious debate as you've just been shown to be wrong on the details and you probably feel you're now on shaky ground with the bigger picture as well. However, if you want to put forth an opinion, and be listened to, you need be able to back up your statements. Since you feel your morality is derived from the bible then a religious debate obviously is in order before you feel free to continue with the value judgments. It's a pretty common mantra now that everybody has the right to their opinion. A dubious statement at best but it says nothing about whether they have a right to subject everybody else to it. Don't just scamper away. Make an honest effort at explaining how you came to the positions you hold and be prepared to change your opinions and beliefs if reason and facts demand it.
As I see it, you've conflated religion and morality. Religion is a set of beliefs encompassing matters of fact from which a morality is derived. I think you're wrong in both. However, I would prefer you remained factually incorrect and continue with your God delusions if it meant you would reread the Gospels and come to a less revolting code of ethics. The alternative is that you abandon religion, thereby realigning your view of the facts with reality but it would be no guarantee that you might come by a more just and consistent set of life principles. |
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newyorkbunny
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Tottori
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Reisender wrote: |
| newyorkbunny wrote: |
| However, I can't fathom how only mixing with those with good morals is inherently wrong. I'm sorry, but I've always mixed with those with certain morals and class. I shall not stop now nor will I do so in the future. If this is offensive to anyone, then so be it! |
And again, I would suggest the moral code you have adopted for yourself is incompatible with the basic tenets of the religion you espouse. Jesus says not only to mix with those who you believe to be of a lower class or morality but to love them. Serve them indeed.
I can understand that you don't want a religious debate as you've just been shown to be wrong on the details and you probably feel you're now on shaky ground with the bigger picture as well. However, if you want to put forth an opinion, and be listened to, you need be able to back up your statements. Since you feel your morality is derived from the bible then a religious debate obviously is in order before you feel free to continue with the value judgments. It's a pretty common mantra now that everybody has the right to their opinion. A dubious statement at best but it says nothing about whether they have a right to subject everybody else to it. Don't just scamper away. Make an honest effort at explaining how you came to the positions you hold and be prepared to change your opinions and beliefs if reason and facts demand it.
As I see it, you've conflated religion and morality. Religion is a set of beliefs encompassing matters of fact from which a morality is derived. I think you're wrong in both. However, I would prefer you remained factually incorrect and continue with your God delusions if it meant you would reread the Gospels and come to a less revolting code of ethics. The alternative is that you abandon religion, thereby realigning your view of the facts with reality but it would be no guarantee that you might come by a more just and consistent set of life principles. |
Ooh, bit strange. God delusions? Scampering away? Hmm... Sorry, I think I'll leave this one. Weird. |
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Birdog3344
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Osaka, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Bottom line, Bunny;
What, pray tell does a tattoo have to do with morality? You did mention that you are not a religious zealot. |
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newyorkbunny
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Tottori
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Birdog3344 wrote: |
Bottom line, Bunny;
What, pray tell does a tattoo have to do with morality? You did mention that you are not a religious zealot. |
Goodness gracious. Do I need to continually repeat every single thing? Go read my prior posts. You're a bit late off the mark. |
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Birdog3344
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Osaka, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Problem is, you never really addressed that issue directly. You skate around it using vague terms like 'morals' and 'class' and insist that tattoos say alot about people and you're 'against' them. What exactly do they say and why are you against them? More to the point, what gives you such an air of superiority over those who choose to get them? You're absolutely right that everyone has a right to thier own opinions, however when someone judges others based on a choice to paint their body it strikes many as being quite archaic and just plain sad. The irony is that your 'moral compass' seems to the one pointing in an uncivilized and ethically bankrupt direction.
Moreover, you brand people as being 'weird' (a clear and very lame attempt at pretention and snobbery) when you don't understand or can't adequetly refute their point. "Childish." |
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newyorkbunny
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Tottori
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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What issue is there to be addressed? I have said it over and over and over again. And who are you anyway? You've come in to this very late when the steam ended long ago. Goodness me, all these vitriol for what? Absolute nought. I shan't change my mind and your attempts at making me feel remorseful for my stance are futile. I am happy being me. I like my life and my lifestyle and my views on life and others should matter little to you.
If I don't like tattoos and don't want to mix with people who have them, who cares? I think they are revolting, gross and unnecessary. Do you get it? Why do I need to like them? Why can't I hold my own views? You have yours and I have mine. It's simple.
And I say AGAIN, tattoos are trampy. But if you or anyone else thinks they are "art" then great for you.
Sheesh, this is getting really really boring! |
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Reisender
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| newyorkbunny wrote: |
| If I don't like tattoos and don't want to mix with people who have them, who cares? |
I care newyorkbunny. More importantly, Jesus cares too. And until you can accept and love the least of his children, including the lower class and tattooed ones among them, it will be you taking his name in vain whenever you mention him. |
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newyorkbunny
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 75
Location: Tottori
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Reisender wrote: |
| newyorkbunny wrote: |
| If I don't like tattoos and don't want to mix with people who have them, who cares? |
I care newyorkbunny. More importantly, Jesus cares too. And until you can accept and love the least of his children, including the lower class and tattooed ones among them, it will be you taking his name in vain whenever you mention him. |
Oh blimey. Now this person really is the nutter. I am Catholic and not interested in all this evangelical banter. Let Jesus deal with me, you go and look after your tattooed and lower class friends. |
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