Job Discussion Forums

[Roger]

I certainly won't learn Cantonese to get around Hong Kong - even if I spoke it without any accen the uncouth behaviour of a shockingly numerous minority wouldn't change. What a foreign visitor experiences from Hongkongers mainland visitors experience too; it's a provincial kind of parochialism.
Anywaqy, I can go to HK and experience a relatively hasslefree time - not every day is like Susie'sexperience. But you must be prepared, and no rationalisation washes this sad fact of boorishness off!

[wailing_imam]

I have worked in four Asian countries and I have felt all this before; the paranoia, alienation, frustration - Culture Shock.

When you live in a different country, it's so easy to bang on about people's manners. I do it frequently here in China. However, this is simply a symptom of not understanding the society and your position in that society. What you have to realise is that you can bang on and on about how the people do this and that blah blah blah but the only person who is at all affected by this moaning and negative state of mind will be yourself.

Culture shock manifests itself in three stages:

1) The Honeymoon Stage: "Wow! This place is so exotic and interesting. I just love it and the food....." - A few weeks.

2) The Crisis Stage - "Why do the people always stare and push? Why do they squeeze their spots on the bus? Why are the such Cu**?" - Lasts as long as you allow it

3) Adaptation - "Got to get up and have another tedious day at work tomorrow, still, I suppose there's the football to look forward to..." - At last, things are normal, you are LIVING LIFE, albeit in a place that you were not born in and you cease to make so many harsh judgements on the people around you. They are people. They are from a different culture. Deal with it.

[Horizontal Hero]

Yes Mr Wailer. I suspect some posters here are in the shock stage. I'm past it myself. There was a time when I almost hated China. Now I actually find myself kind of enamored by it. It took about six years, but it finally happened. But some never come out of the other end of the judgements... as the attitudes of some oldtimers here and on the China forum indicate.

[kowlooner]

HH is right on the money there. There are some � perhaps many � that get stuck in the crisis stage, turning it into a long-term rejection of the host culture, along with a romanticization of what may have been (or is perceived to have been) left behind!

To make it to the next stage actually requires a bit of conscious effort, or at least some clear, personal incentive. Language development is very critical for this, unless one wishes to remain a perpetual tourist. To develop language, one is required to get out of one�s comfort zone and mingle with the �natives� on more than just an accidental basis.

Looking back to my college days, one of the phrases that stuck with me was Coleridge�s �willing suspension of disbelief� as essential to the appreciation of poetry. That attitude can do wonders in a multicultural context too!

But let�s face it. It takes at least a little work to make that transition. It�s not always easy, something for which the landlords of Disco Bay and Lama are always thankful!

[Susie]

SCMP, C4, Tuesday 20 June 2006

"Training for Drivers

A Legco paper proposes that new minibus drivers be required to receive training on driving attitude and behaviour before they can work. The proposal will be discussed by lawmakers on Friday. The Government said the industry accepted the suggestion because it could improve road safety."

[briandwest]

To quote Susie:

[Roger]

So it'
s a "cultural shock" thing, and perhaps a money issue... huh? Some of you sound as though the victim of a rape is the rapist herself!

This is not to say visitors and foreign residents should not make any efforts at integrating, but your sermonising sounds like a washing of your own hands of the rudeness and sins of Hongkongers.
I haven't experienced what Susie went through but I am sure it could have happend to anyone, white or yello; Susie just happened to be the butt of an ill-tempered Hongkonger, and by gosh, there are more of those than you want to believe.

I can't go along with those suggestions that everyone has to become native before they have the right to voice their frustrations over unfriendliness from locals. HK should have enough experience in dealing with non-natives; I am certain such bad behaviour would not be tolerated on board an estate bus in Singapore; why has it got to be tolerated in HK?

Why is it that HK never tops the international lists of places noted for friendliness, politeness, civility, popularity?

It's in part because Hongkongers care nothing about that; they care about money, money and then some more money. That's the explanation why such foul behaviour is tolerated; it's got little to do with visitors speaking Cantonese or English or Mandarin (shock?); it's Hongkon gers not having the right priorities in life. They don't know the art of living.

"Culture shock" - a more ridiculous term has never been coined! I never get exasperated by Bangkokers or locals in other Chiense cities; Macanese certainly don't emulate Hongkongers. Why be such ridiculous apologists?

[Susie]

I think the neighbour who ripped my map out of my hand, threw it on the floor, and tore it just because it touched her hair, should have apologised and compensated me for damaging my property.

No "malice" towards me is interesting because for a crime you need two things: 1) actus reus, and 2) mens rea.

1) actua reus relates to the criminal act of, in this case, destroying property belonging to someone else;

2) mens rea relates to the criminal mind or malicious intent to commit the criminal act.

The woman couldn't deny 1) actus reus; so maybe by "no malice" she tried to claim no mens rea.

However, I believe she can speak English, that she lied about that, and I believe that she lied about no "malice" towards me too. If she wasn't being malicious at that time, was her act a gesture of "friendliness" in Hong Kong culture?! Does it cause me to feel happiness by believing this? No.

I know that her husband is a government worker - civil servant - and wouldn't want his wife convicted of a criminal offence, or at least understands the potential seriousness of what his wife did that night.

http://www.kirstygriffiths.ch/Law-introduction_to_criminal_law.htm

[briandwest]

'Apologists For Rapists' - That's not up to your usual measured and intellectual posts, Roger!
In support of your survey argument, could you possibly list those places that DO top the 'international lists of places noted for friendliness, politeness, civility, popularity" and provide the relative positions of Hong Kong and other Chinese cities?

[Roger]

[kowlooner]

[Susie]

A correction if I may, Kowlooner, I do see my part in the map-ripping incident, namely, that I was there, I am a foreigner, and that my map accidentially touched the woman's hair. I am perfectly accustomed to my own culture, but I think that the map-ripping woman may not be used to my culture!

The worrying thing is that the woman who ripped, tore and threw my map on the ground is still allowed to travel on the residential bus. Yesterday, I had to take the bus at the same time as her and I felt very uncomfortable. I am thinking of writing to the management to let them know about my concern in this matter.

By the way, "Kowlooner"

[quote="kowlooner"]

[Roger]

[kowlooner]

And thus we have it. Fantasy hijacks logical reasoning in Mr. Roger�s neighborhood! Not only does he become an apologist for rudeness all over the planet, with the exception of Hong Kong of course, but he then comes up with this gem:

[Susie]