Job Discussion Forums

kht27 · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 6 Location: Beijing, China

OK folks here's one that has me sitting on the fence. I have a school that has provided a lot of info, pics etc and they are in regular communication with me concerning a teaching position.

They have suggested however that I could arrive on a tourist visa and they would then promise to change this to a work visa within 20 days. I am sure working on a tourist visa is illegal and have said so. They have said they have spent a lot of time and money organising a work visa and then the person they have promised a position to doesn't front up.

I can see where they are coming from but feel rather vulnerable about taking this approach.

Your thoughts??

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056

You are probably going to find that there are two trains of thought on this one:

1. Don't do it as you could get here and find that the school didn't make the prior arrangements for a Z visa because they can't. You will get here and there will be delays and visa runs, and all the time you will be working illegally on an L of an F visa. Finally it will become apparent that they can't secure a Z visa and that will be that.

2. Go for it as it is a bonus for you too. Arriving without any comittment to the school enables you to get here first and check out the school to make sure that all is as promised and that you like the city, the school, the accomodation, and the staff. Obvious downsides are that the school also has no commitment to you so this is probably only a good option if you have the funds to support yourself for a month or so.

Ultimately it is going to be your choice though as there is no way for anyone here to know for sure which way you should go.

You could ask the school for the contact information for current or past foreign teachers so that you can check to make sure that the school does indeed deliver on the Z visa/work permit within the promised time frame.

Personally, I would probably come on a tourist visa and check out the school. Once I had decided to take the job I would sign up and provide them with the paperwork to start the ball rolling. I would spend some time checking out the city and surrounds and maybe even a bit of travelling until the paperwork had been prepared. That was you don't need to work illegally and you can just walk away if there are any delays in giving you the paperwork within the agreed 20 day period.

kht27 · Joined: 22 Apr 2006 Posts: 6 Location: Beijing, China

Great advice thanks very much. I'll ask for contact details of former or present teachers and see what response that generates.

Apart from that plan B check out on a tourist visa anyway and take sufficent funds to live on while tiki-touring. At least I can opt out if it doesn't check out and can keep looking for work while in China.

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

Okay, why do people keep saying that schools are going to get you a Z visa once you arrive? In MOST places in China, the Z visa is a thing of the past. The schools will get you a RESIDENCE PERMIT that acts like the Z visa formally did (allowing you to work in China legally). This Residence Permit, as long as it is valid, allows you to come in and go out of China as you will.

I still don't recall if you can change an F or L visa into a Residence Permit, so the OP is saying that he will get one of those, the school will change it to a Z visa and then . . . . later? change it into a residence permit? Doesn't make sense to me.

chengdude · Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 294

mike w · Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:14 am Post subject:

The 'Z' visa is not a thing of the past.

From the standpoint of the law
If you are coming to China to work, you must obtain a Z visa in your home country before you leave, after presenting the Chinese embassy with the necessary letter of invitation and any other documents required. Once you have arrived in China, your school / place of work has 28 days in which to apply to the PSB to have your 'Z' visa changed into a 'Residence Visa", and to apply for your 'Foreign Experts Certificate".
It is illegal to enter China and take up employment on a 'F' or 'L' visa.

In reality
Those of us who have been here for several years will know from experience that the 'law' has no uniformity across the country. The rules are changed to suit each and every city and province. What applies in one province may not apply in another.

There are many FT's employed in Beijing on 'F' visas, and I know of a couple of FT's on 'L' visas.
Currently in Beijing it is almost impossible for a school to convert 'L' to 'Z' or 'Residence Visa' - but not so for some of the numerous visa service 'agencies'. It is also becoming increasingly difficult to convert the 'F' visa.
BUT, we all know that if the school has connections, and this doesn't just apply to Beijing, converting to 'Residence Visa' can be done.

chengdude · Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 294

Oops, OK, I guess I shot my mouth off as I've only been making the jump from Residence Permit to Residence Permit in-country...with the aforementioned down- and upgrade from an L Visa (when a Residence Permit ran out) with the full knowledge/help of my employer.

mike w · Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject:

Like I said,

"BUT, we all know that if the school has connections, and this doesn't just apply to Beijing, converting to 'Residence Visa' can be done"

If the school / employer has connections, or knows people 'in the right places' it can be done.

We all know that the way the law is applied is at best something akin to a lottery. If you can get away with it, or work your way around it, then why not. I doubt we will ever see the law applied in its fullness, or with the intent that was meant.

I have even known a situation once, coincidentally soon after the introduction of the 'Residence Permit', where the PSB in Beijing itself knew about a change, but the PSB at Beijing airport did not!!

kev7161 · Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Posts: 5880 Location: Suzhou, China

China.Pete · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 547

"They have said they have spent a lot of time and money organising a work visa and then the person they have promised a position to doesn't front up." - KHT27

So how is this YOUR problem? I'd be inclined to consider how many other problems they have encountered which they've discovered can be readily solved by getting pliable FTs to fill the breach for them. But I don't need to elaborate. Just read some of the other threads on this board.

Roger · Joined: 19 Jan 2003 Posts: 9138

Just ask them whether they have a licence to hire FTs! Such licences bear ID numbers, which you might be able to check with the consulate!

Yu · Joined: 06 Mar 2003 Posts: 1219 Location: Shanghai

Did not have problems getting my tourist visa changed.
The airport might want to see you have return tickets as a tourist visa is only valid for 30 days.

stillnosheep · Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2068 Location: eslcafe

It is probable that the school does not have th elicennce required for it legally to employ foreign 'experts' (=teachers) and obtain Z visas/residency permits for them but is able to obtain F visas (business visas) for its teachers via contacts in the PSB or via another organisation that can obtain F visas.

Technically an F visa does not entitile you to be employed, and earn money. in China, technically. However many (most?) private language schools seem to operate using this arrangement.

If airline shoud ask to see return ticket tell them that you will be exiting China overland and/or will make your exit arrangements in China. As long as you can demonstrate possession of sufficient funds there should be no problem[/b]

Calories · Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 361 Location: Chinese Food Hell

I had no problem coming in on an tourist visa and getting a residence permit and all that fun stuff, but I think I may have been lucky. I went with a gut feeling and an impulse and ended up with a good school.

clark.w.griswald · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2056