Job Discussion Forums

[Mark]

One of the things I often hear in Japan is that people have no opportunity to use English. This has always seemed like complete nonsense to me as the opportunities to use English are everywhere.

#1 English books are easily found and many publishers produce interesting readers (both originals and adaptations) for English students.

#2 There seem to be numerous international parties going on around Tokyo.

#3 There are lots of online communities that people could join.

#4 There are activity/sports clubs, social groups and whatnot that are popular with both foreigners and japanese.

#5 English movies are extremely popular and most people watch them reasonably frequently.

And on and on and on and on.......

Yes, it's difficult for the average Japanese to meet foreigners socially. You have to make an effort to seek foreigners out and, unlike eikaiwa, you actually have to be interesting in order to make friends.

But, I mean, it's not like you have to go to Mars. If you want to use English in Japan, it's not that hard. And even if you aren't able to speak to a foreigner in person, there are lots of other ways to use English.

I agree that Japanese don't need to use English, but I strongly disagree with the idea that they have no opportunity to do so.

[Ai]

A lot of people are in a certain routine in their life. They want to learn English but they just can't pluck up the courage to join the international society in their city or talk to foreigners. I would venture to say that many people don't even know about the online communities for language learners.

That's why in my adult classes, I make language learning a regular conversation topic. For example, you might try giving students a hand out with info about online resources and then encourage them to try it over next week. Then talk about it the next week.

Students may like some of the ideas you give them and hate others. But hopefully you will encourage the to learn English outside of their once a week lesson.

[Mark]

You're correct Ai, but I find it incredible that the only use people can think of for English is to chat with foreigners.

I've found this to be a typical conversation in Japan:

Me: Why are are you studying English?

Student: I want to talk to foreigners.

Me: What do you want to talk to foreigners about?

Student: Ehhhhhhhhhhh?????

Most people haven't really thought this through. Lots of people say that they want to be friends with foreigners, but they seem to have given absolutely no thought as to why a foreigner would want to be friends with them. I think that people simply don't understand that their NOVA teacher is not interacting with them in a normal way.

Many people's idea of "talking to foreigners" or "having foreign friends" is that the foreigner will tell jokes and entertain them in simple English while they just sit there. Not everyone, of course, but still......

[kdynamic]

I think a percentage of those people who fit your description want foriegn "friends" not to actually talk with them, but so they can brag to other Japanese people that they have them. It makes them look metropolitan or something.

Basically, I have ceased caring why any Japanese people want to learn English. I know, for a fact, that if they want to get good at English, they need to study hard for a long time, use all the resources at their disposal, and spend time in an English speaking environment. I have met some Japanese people who have done this with a measure of success, and I respect them highly. It's the same process English speakers need to go through to learn Japanese.

As for everyone else, when I have to teach them, to their excuses or rationalizations or half baked ideas, I just nod, smile, and go home when their hour is up. Only way to stay sane.


ETA: if you have some sincere hardworking students who really feel like they don't get to use real English enough, get them email penpals from your home country. You can even use the letters as material for class later.

[Glenski]

[Mark]

[JimDunlop2]

[Glenski]

[kdynamic]

Why is it that people can't understand that there are NO shortcuts to learning a language (especially one very different from your native one) (especially outside of an immersion environment) (especially if you want to get to an advanced level). You simply MUST study. Hard. Serious. Study. No excuses, no whining, and it's not always fun and entertaining. And if you're not going to do it, you should just forget about making real progress. I have told my English conversation students this at times. They need to know the truth.

[shikushiku-boy]

I agree with what kdynamic wrote, learning a language isn't
always fun and games. I've been studying Japanese for
the last 4 years. Some of it is about as much fun as watching
wallpaper fade. But, I accept that it's just part of the process.

However, if, when working at an eikaiwa, you mention that learning
English isn't all cake and ice-cream, the manager gives you that
"BAD TEACHER! BAD TEACHER!" scowl. Frankly, I got pretty
fed up pretending that learning adjectives was the most fun you
could have with your pants on. And, when teaching adults, doing the,
"Gosh, isn't this fun!" routine seemed a bit of an insult to their
intelligence.

I agree with the main point of this thread. Japanese learners spend too
much time studying English, and too little actually 'doing' it. Imagine
a learner driver who spent most of their time studying how to drive, but rarely,
if ever, actually drove a car. Driving a car is a hell of a lot more fun than
studying how to drive.

I couldn't count the number of times I sat in a classroom, in Japan, and daydreamed
about being in an English speaking country, so that I could take the students out into
the real world, and get them to practice what they had just learnt. I fantasized about
them successfully communicating in English: their confidence skyrocketing and their
enthusiasm burning white hot. But, then the lesson would end, and I knew they would
go home and not even think about English until the same time next week...

[cornishmuppet]

Very interesting points. If I had a penny for every time some eigo-bandit told me they were learning English so they could make foreign friends, I'd have, well, at least some way towards a pound by now. And when asked why, they were stumped for an answer.

I know a girl who I used to talk to in the local foreigner bar from time to time who went to Nova and when I asked her why she said 'because I want to be native speaker.' Why, I asked. Do you want to live in a foreign country? 'No, never,' she replied. Hmmm. And from time to time I get text messages from her, usually something like, 'I just took leson. My Engulish so bad! I want cly!' (I've included example spelling errors!), and, because to be honest she isn't particularly interesting, my usual response is 'Study harder then.' Nova certainly aren't fast tracking her to high-level English ability, despite her admission on one occasion that she studies there at least three times a week.

I remember one time I was invited to a tempura party at a Japanese teacher's house, and when I arrived I found nationalies from all over the world present, but the only Japanese people were her and her husband. They were very nice to be fair, but after posing for the obligatory group photo I could envisage it soon appearing on her mantlepiece with all the other photos of her foreign 'friends'. It was all a little sad, I thought.

[JimDunlop2]

[shikushiku-boy]

"Edutainment": whoever thought up that concept should be locked in
a Nova cubicle with:

a chronically shy 27 year old OL, who has never been out of
the prefecture, but wants to,"...make foreign friends..."

a 30 something unmarried guy, who lives a home with his mother,
and wants to, ..."watch American movies without reading the Japanese
subtitles..."

a 45 year old housewife, who hasn't studied English since high school,
has a New Zealand home-stay student arriving next week, and wants,
"...to be able to speak English..."

[Mark]

[Gordon]

Why can't these "English leeches" understand that friendship is a 2-way street? You don't come up to someone and say "I want to be your friend", it's not like buying a dog. Woof Woof.