Job Discussion Forums

[khmerhit]

Where I live, in canada, the people roundabout speak the language of Empire to each other -- the Spanish Empire. Many of them dont bother to learn English, cos, like, they dont have to. At present they are making a lot of noise in spanish about the world cup, plus dancing in the streets and blowing whistles for their respective teams. Sigh.

An interesting film that takes rare account of language-learning and whose heroine is that equally rare (at least in North America) creature, a polyglot, is the Interpreter with Nicole Kidman. She speaks "Koo", the tongue of her homeland, "Moboto", among other lingos. Sean Penn plays the FBI agent as a man of the people, as only he can do. Needless to say, the gap between the yankee populist salt of the earth and the gorgeous and mysterious multilingual foreigner proves, in the end, unbridgeable.

Where was I? Oh yeah, the OP has a point, but he's on a losing wicket.

[Fishy]

[mondrian]

[Fishy]

[JZer]

[Justin Trullinger]

[redsoxfan]

I study Polish because I need to speak it in order to feel comfortable here. For instance: going to the bank, paying bills, making more complex requests at restaurants, talking with my girlfriend's parents, talking with some of my girlfriend's friends who don't speak English, asking bus drivers questions, answering random guys on trains, reading webpages in Polish, understanding signs and posters, explaining to the woman in a shop that I don't need a bag because I have my own, asking directions in smaller towns, reading preparation instructions on boxes of food, reading wine labels, explaining that I want a certain amount of bread sliced, getting a haircut (done correctly!), reserving a pool table, and the list goes on and on. I'm not trying to integrate into Polish society. I'm just not willing to live completely outside of it, relying on Poles to translate everything for me. My Polish isn't fantastic, but I feel confident that I can get almost anything done here, barring exceptionally complicated tasks. When I first got here, speaking no Polish, my life was filled with daily annoyances. My life is definitely more enjoyable now because I took the time (and man does it take time) to learn some Polish.

Additionally, if one speaks the local language, one will be a better English teacher. I know many disagree, but often this is because they don't want to learn the local language, so they convince themselves that it's unimportant in the classroom. I feel that one can better understand students' mistakes if he is familiar with the constructions and grammar of their own language. Also, sometimes it's just easier to give direct translations. Forget having pre-int's try to explain what breadcrumbs are--they might lack the vocab to describe this. Just tell them that bulka tarta means breadcrumbs, and move on. So, I do think that knowing the students first language can be a useful tool to use in the classroom.

Now, if I were to go to China for just a year, I doubt I'd learn much Chinese. I just don't really care, to be honest. But if I planned on being there for a while, then sure I would. But here's one final point: how much of the local language one "should" learn depends on how difficult the language is. If I'd been studying Italian as long as I've studied Polish, I'd be totally fluent. Italian is just an easy language for us. Arabic is not, so I wouldn't begrudge someone who wasn't conversationally fluent in Arabic after two years. While I do think folks who stick it out here in Poland should learn Polish, I also understand that everything about the language is difficult, and progress can be as slow as molasses. But heck, I like learning languages. If I had to study math instead of Polish, I wouldn't even consider it!

Besides, Polish girls think it's adorable when foreigners speak Polish. (You knew there had to be an alterior motive somewhere!)

[gaijinalways]

Ah, the joys of studying other languages. Yes, it is time consuming and difficult. but a lot of fun when you 'rewire' your brain.

As to furthering the language empire, whch one ?

[Roger]

The anglophones have for centuries been guilty of this attitude; they are the first to ostracise non-English speakers living in their midst.

But while that may be true, the situation of an English techer on foreign soil is not identical with the situation of an immigrant to an English-speaking country. Few of us came here with a view of settling here for good.

I am capable of communicating quite a bit in Mandarin though I will own up by saying I am always relieved when someone's English is more robust than my frail Chinese is. If you can't read the script you can't look up new vocables. Without knowing how to read and write you are severely disadvantaged! This is especially true of non-Chinese living among Chinese! Even the Chinese among themselves misunderstand a lot and resort to writing words in Chinese script. Today I talked to a Hunanese in Mandarin; she rudely told me off, insisting I speak English; later I realised her Hunanese accent is just too thick to handle!

And let's not exaggerate our indebtedness to the hospitable natives that accommodate us in their homeland: we wouldn't get partners or spouses here if we didn't have other qualities apart from language skills. To know the local tongue is a privilege that gives you advantages, but not everyone can help themselves to such a privilege: once you are past your teenage years you just can't learn foreign tongues as easily as you could before.

That's also true of the many millions of immigrants in western countries! If they hadn't studied a foreign tongue before emigrating they wouldn't be able to learn it in-country!

[Teababy]

Gee, Rog me old leather, that last comment is so totally untrue.

Anyway, onto the language problem. If you want people to speak to you in the language you're practicing (and not in English), then you simply make it clear that you don't speak English. Here in China I say I can't speak English all the time. I tell them I'm French or Italian or from Xinjiang. Forces them back into Chinese, since if we can't speak English, then there's nothing else for it.

A couple of reasons. First, I want to practice. Second, beyond the "Can I help you?", it's usually the case that they don't actually speak English and your request is met with blank incomprehension and "solly, solly". Third, I hate the attention that speaking English draws. People listen in, laugh, point and stare. Some of them are no doubt thinking "stupid foreigner can't speak Chinese" or feeling resentment that I'm "expecting" the special privilege of having my own language used in this country. No, I'd much rather speak Chinese any day.