Job Discussion Forums

[TESOUL]

One question to all the anti-EF posse. I am not saying they are the temple of English teaching but where are you all teaching that is so much better?

[saint57]

Why don't you tell us why EF is so good? I remember being at a bar on Christmas (Saturday) with some EF teachers. We were having a great time. They had to work the next day (Sunday), but I didn't. Case closed.

[stil]

I'm not anti-EF as I've never worked for them but my understanding is that the pay is very low for the hours (incuding office hours) and the accomodations usually are shared. The question itself is a little broad because EF is franchised so not all are alike. Some may be very good, some horrible.

[vikdk]

[DistantRelative]

Ba-da Boom !!! Ba-da Bing !!! vikdk summed it up short and sweet as well as anyone's going to !!!


Zhuhao

[Roger]

[vikdk]

[no_exit]

I dunno. I have mixed feelings about these anti-EF tirades. How many have actually worked for one?

I know there are crappy EF centers, I've heard firsthand from people who have worked for them. But I'm also willing to bet that there are others out there like the center I'm just finishing my contract with that are fairly decent. How about some facts?

As for high hours/low pay. Full time teachers at our center make a base of 4800 (which includes a housing stipend of 400 a month, no shared housing, no housing provided at all. Most FTs in Kunming would rather not live in school provided accomodations, no matter what the school). They are required to teach 16 hours a week. They teach for four days a week -- a full Saturday, a full Sunday. They teach for two hours each on either Tues/Thurs or Wed/Fri, their choice usually. On the days that they teach during the week, they are required to come in two hours early to prepare lessons/take student interviews. The full time teachers at our center rarely complain about this extra office time, as it gives them office time to prepare lessons, make copies, take care of administrative stuff so that they don't have to worry about it on days off. The salary is pretty decent for our city, and it always comes on time. Airfare and bonus are paid. Quite a few teachers are on their second or third contract, and have gotten raises for re-signing. Maybe the pay is low in Shanghai, or Guangzhou, but there are EFs in places like Kunming too, where there simply aren't any teaching jobs paying a whole lot more than this.

What else? We have all the supplies and equipment we could possibly need or want. Teacher training is provided. The curriculum is well constructed and there are ways for us to give feedback to the parents and deal with problem kids. We're given a chance to present our own opinions and give feedback to the administration. Student numbers and lack of classes are never a problem. There are usually about 20 FTs on staff, full and part time.

I'm not saying EF is heaven on earth or anything, but I don't regret working there. There have been some issues at our center recently simply because our DOS (a really great guy who always tried to do his best by the teachers and was well liked by basically everyone) is going back to his home country and a there isn't a new DOS yet. This has lead to uncertainty and confusion, and it is sad to see a place which was once so pleasant and fun to work for become much more of a pain in the rear, simply due to lack of a good manager (at a place with 20 FTs, a good DOS is really important). I'm not renewing my contract, not really because I'm unhappy there, but because I have a better opportunity that I really can't pass up. I have friends still there, and some of them will probably renew.

I guess there are advantages and disadvantages to franchises, but you really will find very few disgruntled former employees of the Kunming center, and with soooo many EFs around China, I find it hard to believe that every last one is as bad as they're all made out to be.

[vikdk]

good on ya no-exit - if you like it then stick up for it - but then again I'm sure you'll concede that's a rather subjective way of looking at the situation of EF when considered in respect to objective viewpoint of FT employment standards in China as a whole. And Im sure you'll also respect the rights of posters to be able to speak out against a standard EF starting pay rate which seems to be around 31.5RMB/hour (5000/month for 40 hours/week(office +teaching time)) (somebody please put me right if I'm wrong on this pay), otherwise employers and recruiters looking in on this forum may start to get ideas about what I and other FT's are willing to expect - after all you've left for a better offer, but how long will those kind of offers last in market where the low wage is accepted without a whimper

[TESOUL]

You make a good point about EF setting the levels of pay Vikdk. Point taken, it does cheapen what could be a decent industry. Still I really want to know which schools don't teach weekends and offer solo accomodation.

[stil]

[vikdk]

[prof]

[Shan-Shan]

Yes, it is baffling why so many "FTs"enter these types of situations where whole days are handed over for about five or six bucks Canadian an hour. The same could be done in South Korea, for perhaps fewer hours, at around 20 or more Canadian an hour (and still with free accomodation, free airfare, and in South Korea you get 13 months pay for 12 months work!)

And if it's the "I want to experience life in China" excuse, then just come and travel around. How much is going to be experienced inside an institution (other than institution China) when one is strangled on a very short or long leash. There won't even be the satisfaction of having earned some real money at the end of each month to offset the pain and bruising.

But then again maybe some people are thrilled enough by the prospect of being able to save $500 a month, and overlook the cost.

As I've seen on many occasions in China, there are foreigners who still delude themselves into thinking charity is needed here, and that Otherworld brownie points are quickly being awarded to them by their angels in the guise of screaming, spoiled children thrashing about in bolted metal seats. Accepting a low wage only makes the points of greater value.

[saint57]