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paulcarr
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:48 pm Post subject: ESL teaching job in North China University of Technology. |
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I possibly got a job offer from Angelina's ESL cafe job agency.
I was given this weblink to the school which has expressed an interest in hiring me from Angelina's ESL cafe job agency.
http://www.anesl.com/schools/bj581.htm
The school is only identified as bj581.
After doing some research with google, I found this identical page.
North China University of Technology
http://www.ncut.edu.cn/englishpage/english/brief.htm
So, I presume it is the North China University of Technology.
I have two questions:1) Why does Angelina's ESL Cafe just give a code and not the name of the school/college/institution et cetera?
And 2) This university, the North China University of Technology. Is it good to work there as an English language teacher? The pay there is no great shakes. A modest 4,000 RMB. But, I don't think it is too far from Beijing city centre and I'd like to live near Beijing. I want to live and work in Beijing for at least a year.
Angelina's ESL job cafe has said that if I am interested, they will send me a contract to sign. I am presently in Ireland. I plan to go to Beijing on July 22nd. I think the job won't start until September. Anyway, is this a contract worth signing? Perhaps, some of you good teachers have experience of this university or have other information to share with me?
Thank you in advance.
Paul Carr |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:26 am Post subject: Re: ESL teaching job in North China University of Technology |
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| paulcarr wrote: |
| Why does Angelina's ESL Cafe just give a code and not the name of the school/college/institution et cetera? |
It is because it doesn't want you to know who the employer is so you could contact them directly. If you do get hired by the university by contacting them directly, then the school can refuse to pay Angelina's any placement commission/fee. Many job ads on the Internet that are placed by agents don't usually say who the employer (especially if the school has a web site). Mind you, many of those jobs are usually fakes and don't exist.
| Quote: |
| Angelina's ESL job cafe has said that if I am interested, they will send me a contract to sign. I am presently in Ireland. I plan to go to Beijing on July 22nd. I think the job won't start until September. Anyway, is this a contract worth signing? |
Do a search and you will find quite a few old threads on Angelina's. One thing I would caution is whether the contract is between you and Angelina's, or indeed between you and the university. Also, July 22 may not be a very good time to come as the university would be closed for summer break until mid August at the earliest. Come to China a week before the term begins. |
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hairuo
Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 473
Location: Somewhere in China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Why not send an email directly to the school? Ask them if they are looking for esl teachers. Maybe, get a name of someone who is teaching there or has taught there and talk to them. Try getting the info from the school.
I have never done business with Angelina's ESL cafe...so cant help you there. |
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saint57
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 1221
Location: Beyond the Dune Sea
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Very dangerous.
OP, why can't you find a school on your own? The recruiter's fee will be paid for by your reduced salary. |
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paulcarr
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: Thanks for the info. |
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My plan is to go to Beijing on July 22nd. In fact, I have already booked the ticket. I hope to go on a one-month tourist visa.
I might have to start looking for work as soon as I arrive in Beijing.
Would it be possible to get another one month extension on my tourist visa after I arrive in Beijing? That'll give me tourist visa cover up to the start of the new college term in Beijing.
How much is the recruitor's fee typically? Is it reduced monthly from my teacher's salary?
Best Wishes,
Paul Carr[/quote] |
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kerrilee
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 59
Location: Dalian, China
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| My friends came over with a similar organisation but to Southern China. They later found out that other teachers at the school got paid 7000RMB, when they only got 4000RMB. They found out the other 3000 was going to the agency.............Contact schools directly! |
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paulcarr
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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| kerrilee wrote: |
| My friends came over with a similar organisation but to Southern China. They later found out that other teachers at the school got paid 7000RMB, when they only got 4000RMB. They found out the other 3000 was going to the agency.............Contact schools directly! |
Thank you for this information. My plan is to go to Beijing on July 22nd on a tourist visa. (one month long). I am looking for work via e-mail et cetera presently but I may not find something suitable. I may have to continue to look when I arrive in Beijing. I was wondering if it would be possible to get an extension on my one month tourist visa in Beijing (for another month or two).
Thanks,
Paul Carr |
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Paul Barufaldi
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 271
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:21 am Post subject: Re: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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Certainly avoid recruiters at all costs. You'll save a fortune by doing your own legwork. Don't respond to pressure to take a job right off the bat under questionable terms. Tell them you have to weigh other offers and you'll get back them, put yourself in a better position to negotiate. I've found that the harder they push you, the more desperate they for a teacher -but still, they may have a cap on what they can offer. The more you look around, the more your chances improve of finding something lucrative, for sure.
There's almost no rhyme or reason to it sometimes. I've been offered peanuts to lecture at major universities and offered 500 rmb an hour by lesser known schools who need an FT but simply don't know how to go about finding one. Contrary to what some people say about Beijing, I think there's still more high paying work here than you can shake a stick at. It all boils down to legwork and contacts -and maybe a bit of luck:)
Anyhow, 4,000 is really low in Beijing. I mean, that's the typical rent on a decent apartment. Though if you have no experience, the hours are under 20, and teh housing is acceptable (60+ sq meters NOT shared) -it might be a good place to start off. Consider the location too cuz you'll be bored to tears in the burbs.
You're doing the right thing by shopping around. A lot of FTs find themselves in crappy positions for no other reason than failing to do just that. |
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paulcarr
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:13 am Post subject: Re: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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| Paul Barufaldi wrote: |
Certainly avoid recruiters at all costs. You'll save a fortune by doing your own legwork. Don't respond to pressure to take a job right off the bat under questionable terms. Tell them you have to weigh other offers and you'll get back them, put yourself in a better position to negotiate. I've found that the harder they push you, the more desperate they for a teacher -but still, they may have a cap on what they can offer. The more you look around, the more your chances improve of finding something decent, for sure.
There's almost no rhyme or reason to it sometimes. I've been offered peanuts to lecture at major universities and offered 500 rmb an hour by lesser known schools who need an FT but simply don't know how to go about finding one. Contrary to what some people say about Beijing, I think there's still more high paying work here than you can shake a stick at. It all boils down to legwork and contacts -and maybe a bit of luck:)
Anyhow, 4,000 is really low in Beijing. I mean, that's the typical rent on a decent apartment. Though if you have no experience, the hours are under 20, and teh housing is decent -it might be a good place to start off. But definately shop around:) |
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the info. Yeah, the job offer was from Angelina's EFL job agency. The amazing part of it and the annoying part of it was this: This girl from Angelina's EFL job agency offered me a job from an unidentified school. She e-mailed me that "the school *may* offer me 4,000 to 4,500 RMB per month. I was sent a sample contract. Basically, an appendix which was two pages long. Oh, I should mention at this stage, she was Chinese and her English wasn't perfect in her e-mail which probably would have led to more confusion.
So, anyway, I was so happy to, at last, get a job offer. I'm anxious to get a job fixed up before I arrive in Beijing. I replied to say "I'll take the job".
Now, this is what happened....
The same person from Angelina's e-mailed me back. She said, oh, the school will only be offering me 3,500 RMB per month because the manager of the school says I have no teaching experience in Beijing.
The nerve!!!!
Oh, it gets better. In the same e-mail, the girl tells me to sign the sample contract she had sent me in the previous e-mail. On this sample contract, at the top, there was Party A and Party B. I'm party B. But, the space for Party A was also empty. And the name of the school was scored out wherever it appeared in the rest of the contract normally. She tells me to sign this.
I replied to say that (to remind her that) I have 2 and a half years experience teaching English already and that 3,500 RMB per month wouldn't be enough. I also wrote that I would only be signing real contracts not sample contracts.
Anyway, the girl replies the next day to say that, after all, I will be getting 4,000 RMB per month. But, that the boss of this particular school wouldn't be offering me any more because there was another candidate for the same job (presumably with less teaching qualifications as myself). If I agreed to these conditions, a real contract would be forwarded to me (so she said).
In fairness though, the girl had already sent me two e-mail addresses for this boss/school and a phone number. But one of the e-mail addresses didn't work. I haven't phoned (yet).
To my mind, she was engaging in pressure selling. The next day, she writes to me again to ask me if I had received her e-mail the previous day.
Some other guy on this thread, mentioned that these job agencies charge a fee. But on the introduction page of Angelina's website, they claim there is no fee charged. Some guy mentioned that one teacher in the south of China was getting 4,000 RMB per month whilst her colleagues were getting 7,000 RMB for the same job because she got her job through an agency and the agency was cutting off a whopping 3,000 RMB direct from the employer.
So, anyway, I think things are becoming clearer in my head. I now realize why that girl wanted me to sign that sample contract. (which had both party A and party B empty) I think it is possible that she was going to put her name or the Angelina's job agency's name in party A instead of the school I was seeking work in. She was probably going to take off a whopping 3,000 RMB charge direct from the school or thereabouts and, me, the dimwit that I am, taking 4,000 RMB, thinking that this was what the boss of the school originally was prepared to offer me. I bet if I had contacted the manager of the school directly, he would have offered me a lot more.
Thank you.
Paul Carr
Paul, do you have an msn messenger number or a QQ number, ICQ, skype or Yahoo! number. I'd like to keep in touch with you. You seem to have a lot of experience teaching English in Beijing/China. It would be very useful for me (provided you're not busy of course) to pick your brains from time to time.  ) |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:27 am Post subject: Re: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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Your concerns are well warranted. However, you should be aware that the practice of using a sample contract is quite common even with employers. They need to show the authorities that you have commited your service to get you the necessary documents so you can get your Z visa at your local Chinese embassy/consulate. Usually you will have to sign the actual SAFEA-issued contract and any contract appendiz after you arrive in China. Some employers go as far as couriering the actual SAFEA contract to you.
| paulcarr wrote: |
| On this sample contract, at the top, there was Party A and Party B. I'm party B. But, the space for Party A was also empty. And the name of the school was scored out wherever it appeared in the rest of the contract normally. |
Yeah, seeing that contract comes from an agent like ANESL, I'd be concerned too. However, don't get too paranoid. I have seen plenty of sample contracts from actual employers that don't have the "Party A" field filled out.
| Quote: |
| Some other guy on this thread, mentioned that these job agencies charge a fee. But on the introduction page of Angelina's website, they claim there is no fee charged. |
What I said was, if they did, ANESL charged employers placement fees/commission. ANESL's claim is about not charding job seekers any fees.
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| I think it is possible that she was going to put her name or the Angelina's job agency's name in party A instead of the school I was seeking work in. |
Possibly, or just a speculation. One'd never know until one has actually signed the sample contract itself and has sent it back. |
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paulcarr
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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| tw wrote: |
Your concerns are well warranted. However, you should be aware that the practice of using a sample contract is quite common even with employers. They need to show the authorities that you have commited your service to get you the necessary documents so you can get your Z visa at your local Chinese embassy/consulate. Usually you will have to sign the actual SAFEA-issued contract and any contract appendiz after you arrive in China. Some employers go as far as couriering the actual SAFEA contract to you.
| paulcarr wrote: |
| On this sample contract, at the top, there was Party A and Party B. I'm party B. But, the space for Party A was also empty. And the name of the school was scored out wherever it appeared in the rest of the contract normally. |
Yeah, seeing that contract comes from an agent like ANESL, I'd be concerned too. However, don't get too paranoid. I have seen plenty of sample contracts from actual employers that don't have the "Party A" field filled out.
| Quote: |
| Some other guy on this thread, mentioned that these job agencies charge a fee. But on the introduction page of Angelina's website, they claim there is no fee charged. |
What I said was, if they did, ANESL charged employers placement fees/commission. ANESL's claim is about not charding job seekers any fees.
| Quote: |
| I think it is possible that she was going to put her name or the Angelina's job agency's name in party A instead of the school I was seeking work in. |
Possibly, or just a speculation. One'd never know until one has actually signed the sample contract itself and has sent it back. |
Hi tw,
Thank you for the information.
I did a search on SAFEA-issued contracts. I read a previous post on Dave's ESL cafe that said that the standard SAFEA contract is basically a guideline for schools to use as they write their own contract. Would it be correct to say that if I work in a government school then I would get an unedited SAFEA contract but if I work in a private school/institution, it could be significantly edited?
Can I ask what FAO stands for? "Foreign Affairs Officer"? Is this guy a liaison officer between the native English language teachers in a school and the Chinese staff? If the institution were big enough, the FAO might even have his/her own staff?
I see you have a lot of experience teaching in China and are a proficient poster to this forum down the years. I hope we can continue to keep in touch.
As I said before, my plan is to go over to Beijing on a one month long tourist visa on July 22nd. Unless I can arrange a job before I go over (I have a few leads, but they are chugging along at a tantalizingly slow pace), I will have to start looking for work when I arrive in Beijing. I may have to extend my tourist visa because the new term doesn't start, I think, until the start of September.
I read that the whole process of getting a z visa (from start to finish) can take 6 weeks.
Best Wishes,
Paul Carr |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:26 am Post subject: Re: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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| paulcarr wrote: |
| I did a search on SAFEA-issued contracts. I read a previous post on Dave's ESL cafe that said that the standard SAFEA contract is basically a guideline for schools to use as they write their own contract. Would it be correct to say that if I work in a government school then I would get an unedited SAFEA contract but if I work in a private school/institution, it could be significantly edited? |
I have never signed any contracts with private language training centres before, so I don't know if they use the actual SAFEA contract. Generally speaking, public schools should get their FT's to sign the SAFEA contract printed by SAFEA, and an appendiz that covers anything not mentioned in the SAFEA contract. My current (and soon former) employer never asked me to sign another contract other than the one I'd signed before coming to China.
| Quote: |
| Can I ask what FAO stands for? "Foreign Affairs Officer"? Is this guy a liaison officer between the native English language teachers in a school and the Chinese staff? If the institution were big enough, the FAO might even have his/her own staff? |
Yes to all of the above questions. Basically, the FAO is who the FT goes to when the FT wishes to complain, get his/her pay, and the FAO handles the FT's FEC and RPF (or done by an assistant).
| Quote: |
| As I said before, my plan is to go over to Beijing on a one month long tourist visa on July 22nd. |
Yes, we know. You've mentioned this to us in almost every post thus far.
| Quote: |
| I read that the whole process of getting a z visa (from start to finish) can take 6 weeks. |
It takes anywhere from two to six weeks, depending on whether the city in which the school is located has a SAFEA office, how efficient the office does things, the time of the year, the amount of guanxi, etc.
The SAFEA contract:
| Quote: |
ISSUED AND PRINTED BY
THE STATE ADMIMSIRATION OF FOREIGN
EXPERTS AFFAIRS
(Copies Are Invalid)
CONTRACT
I. Party A ___________________________________ wishes to engage the service of Party B ___________________________________ as ___________________________________. The two parties, in a spirit of friendly cooperation, agree to sign this contract and pledge to fulfill conscientiously all the obligations stipulated in it.
II. The period of service will be from the __________ day of ____________________, 20__________ to the __________ day of ____________________, 20__________.
III. The duties of Party B (see attached pages)
IV. Party B�s monthly salary will be _______________ Yuan RMB, __________% of which can be converted into foreign currency monthly.
V. Party A�s Obligations
1. Party A shall introduce to Party B the laws, decrees and relevant regulations enacted by the Chinese government, the Party A�s work system and regulations concerning administration of foreign experts.
2. Party A shall conduct direction, supervision and evaluation of Party B�s work.
3. Party A shall provide Party B necessary working and living conditions.
4. Party A shall provide co-workers.
5. Party A shall pay Party B�s salary regularly by the month.
VI. Party B�s Obligations
1. Party B shall observe the laws, decrees and relevant regulations enacted by the Chinese government and shall not interfere in China�s internal affairs.
2. Party B shall observe Party A�s work system and regulations concerning administration of foreign experts and shall accept Party A�s arrangement, direction, supervision and evaluation in regard to his/her work. Without Party A�s consent, Party B shall not render service elsewhere or hold concurrently any post unrelated to the work agreed on with Party A.
3. Party B shall complete the tasks agreed on schedule and guarantee the quality of work.
4. Party B shall respect China�s religious policy, and shall not conduct religious activities incompatible with the status of an expert.
5. Party B shall respect the Chinese people�s moral standards and customs.
VII. Revision, Cancellation and Termination of the Contract
1. Both Parties should abide by the contract and should refrain from revising, canceling, or terminating the contract without mutual consent.
2. The contract can be revised, canceled, or terminated with mutual consent. Before both parties have reached an agreement, the contract should be strictly observed.
3. Party A has the right to cancel the contract with a written notice to Party B under the following conditions:
1) Party B does not fulfill the contract or does not fulfill the contract obligations according to the terms stipulated, and has failed to amend after Party A has pointed it out.
2) According to the doctor�s diagnosis, Party B cannot resume normal work after a continued 30 day sick leave.
4. Party B has the right to cancel the contract with a written notice to Party A under the following conditions:
1) Party A has not provided Party B with necessary working and living conditions as stipulated in the contract.
2) Party A has not paid Party B as scheduled.
VIII. Breach Penalty
When either of the two parties fails to fulfill the contract or fails to fulfill the contract obligations according to the terms stipulated, that is, breaks the contract, it must pay a breach penalty of US $500 to 2,000 (or the equivalent in RMB).
If party B asks to cancel the contract due to events beyond control, it should produce certifications by the department concerned, obtain Party A�s consent, and pay its own return expenses; if Party B cancels the contract without valid reason, it should pay its own return expenses and pay a breach penalty to Party A.
If Party A asks to cancel the contract due to events beyond control, with the consent of Party B, it should pay Party B�s return expenses; if Party A cancels the contract without valid reason, it should pay Party B�s return expenses and pay a breach penalty to Party B.
IX. The appendix of this contract is an inseparable part of the contract and has equal effect.
X. This contract takes effect on the date signed by both parties and will automatically expire when the contract ends. If either of the two parties asks for a new contract, it should forward its request to another party 90 days prior to the expiration of the contract, and sign the new contract with mutual consent.
XI. Party B shall bear all expenses incurred when staying on after the contract expires.
XII. Arbitration
The two parties shall consult with each other and mediate any disputes which may arise about the contract. If all attempts fail, the two parties can appeal to the organization of arbitration for foreign experts affairs in the State Administration of Foreign Experts Affairs and ask for a final arbitration.
This Contract is signed at ____________________, in duplicate, this __________ day of ____________________, 20__________, in the Chinese and English, both texts being equally authentic.
Party A Party B
(Signature) (Signature) |
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paulcarr
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: Re: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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| tw wrote: |
Yes to all of the above questions. Basically, the FAO is who the FT goes to when the FT wishes to complain, get his/her pay, and the FAO handles the FT's FEC and RPF (or done by an assistant).
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Hi tw,
Thank you for your help...
So many acronyms!!  May I ask you what FEC and RPF mean?
I suppose when I go to China, I'm just going to have to get my hands dirty and learn from my mistakes.
Paul Carr |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject: Re: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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| paulcarr wrote: |
| So many acronyms!! May I ask you what FEC and RPF mean? |
FEC = Foreign Expert Certificate - the reddish booklet a foreigner must have to be able to teach legally in China, and to exchange currency.
RPF = Resident Permit for Foreigner - the visa-like sticker in your passport allowing a foreigner who is not in China as a tourist to legally reside in China after 30 days of being in China. |
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paulcarr
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: Getting an extension on a tourist visa.. |
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| tw wrote: |
| paulcarr wrote: |
| So many acronyms!! May I ask you what FEC and RPF mean? |
FEC = Foreign Expert Certificate - the reddish booklet a foreigner must have to be able to teach legally in China, and to exchange currency.
RPF = Resident Permit for Foreigner - the visa-like sticker in your passport allowing a foreigner who is not in China as a tourist to legally reside in China after 30 days of being in China. |
谢谢
Paul Carr |
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