Job Discussion Forums

loribethlarsen · Joined: 19 Jun 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Minnesota, USA

Okay, i've read the posts. I've got a phone call from two seemingly quite nice ladies from PSU Women's college. Here are the questions....are they really monsters? I've got an MA TESOL and 10+ yrs experience. Am I to believe that I should hold out for a better Teaching position if I were interested in Saudi? They've quoted R8000/month....is this bad? I've seen R10000+ as being a going rate.
In addition, I've got a 15 month daughter...and of course, she comes along. Realistically, what would our lives be like? I'm into playing games with her, singing, dancing (in the privacy of our own living room), reading as many books as I've got free time (after changing diapers, singing, dancing, bathing, feeding), and watching TV and checking email. That's my life. I'd rather save money for a year than have an active social life right now. I'd rather have a good salary for a year...than take the two of us down to Latin America or Thailand next year.
I'm not much worried about 'comments' regarding our 'alternative family'....as they say....like water off a duck's back. I'm pretty well versed on Saudi, particularly Riyadh culture...and don't find it terrifying. (Married to a Saudi for years) I wouldn't want to live there forever, but what are your thoughts on living there for a year with my little one.
Also, does anyone know how to get info on the costs of a nanny? Does PSU hold passports? My little girl does not have a father....can a grandfather 'stand in' for signatures?
OK, appreciate the advice, thanks

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

That salary looks terribly low for an MA + 10 years and Middle East experience. Did you apply anywhere else? The Emirates? Qatar? Oman? It is late in the game for next year...

If this is your best and only offer... and you have read all the bad reports on here - which are accurate according to my very reputable sources, it is a job for the next couple of years. It is not the worst job in the world or in KSA, but with your credentials, you should be able to do better.

VS

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I am frankly surprised. Life as a single parent cannot be easy in Saudi Arabia. Of course domestic help can be hired but how easy will it be to find someone reliable ?

The salary does not sound very good either. I wonder how much you will save out of this after paying for domestic help and local transport.

Cleopatra · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:33 am Post subject:

Do PSU know about your family situation?

I ask because I heard of a woman who could not join her second husband in Riyadh, because she did not have the written consent of her previous husband - the father of her child - to bring the child abroad. I would guess that if your husband was Saudi it would make matters even more complicated.

You say you've read all the relevant posts? So are you really comfortable about going to work in a place which seems to have lost about one third of their English teaching staff in one year?

loribethlarsen · Joined: 19 Jun 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Minnesota, USA

Ok. Do you know what the specific information is regarding the 'leaders' of the English Dept at PSU? It's not a very big dept...so 1/3 leaving would be not very many people.

Regarding single parenting....anywhere in the world it will be more difficult than double parenting, no? I guess my questions were about Riyadh specifically...does anyone know how much childcare is? It seems that from other posts...nannies are rather inexpensive. It's not even an option
here in the US (and daycare is outrageously expensive as well.) So, being that pretty much anywhere I eventually decide to go...I will be paying a lot of money from my salary for daycare. I've found out that S. Korea is out of the question.

Reliable daycare...that's a question to consider no matter where she'll be or who will be caring for her. Reliability in a caretaker in Riyadh is the question...is it uncommon? hard to find?

Yes, PSU does know that I will be coming with only my daughter. She doesn't have a father...and I don't have a husband...here in the US nor in Saudi (I had an ex from Saudi....long time ago....) So, there's no where to get signatures if required. I guess my question was...there's no father listed on her birth certificate...i wonder if this will be a problem if someone male is required to sign something for her. Hmmm.
Your thoughts are very much appreciated...

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Just a couple of comments.... it is significantly negative when a third of a department this size decamps. I wouldn't just shrug it off in this case. It was not normal attrition. There are significant management problems... one of the major ones being that they often make very bad hiring decisions. And they can be very petty and vindictive. But I still stand by what I said before... if you need the job, there are worse places. If you have plenty of tolerance and patience with these kinds of problems, you could probably survive a contract and be able to apply to other places in the Gulf that are a great deal more pleasant to work and live in.

And I fear that providing a male signature for the child may be crucial. I would call the embassy in DC and see if they can give you any answers. Who knows... they may accept your father's signature if he is available. Since you have dealt with Saudia before you probably know that legally speaking women are rather non-entities. I doubt that this is a problem that they have dealt with very often.

I have heard of a number of single mothers teaching in the Emirates and also Oman. If this all falls through, you might start applying there. You are definitely correct that childcare in the Gulf will cost you a fraction of what it does in the US.

VS

Cleopatra · Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:59 am Post subject:

I have a couple of points too!

With reference to your OP, you seem to think that a year in Riyadh will set you up for a more pleasant, but less lucrative life elsewhere? Think carefully about that one. On 8,000 SR a month, with childcare deducted from that, you will certainly be able to survive, but I can't see you saving all that much - certainly not enough for you to be able to be carefree about where you choose to work in the future. 10 years might net you something substantial, if you're good with money, but one?

Friends of mine who have full-time nannies pay (I think!) about 1,500-2,000 a month. Most of the nannies here are Philippina or South Asian. I've not heard of people having any particular problems, and if and when you get here you can ask around for recommendations. Nannies are very common - almost all Saudi families have at least one, several if they can afford it.

In my experience, Saudi employers, particularly women, are often vague about the paperwork required for foreigners living here - it's not something they've ever had to deal with. So don't just assume it's OK because the people interviewing you seemed to think it would be. As VS writes, try to contact the Saudi embassy - no easy task I know - or failing that, see if you can contact someone who is/was in your situation. It's not out of the question that you could come with your daughter - I knew a woman who lived here with her son, while her husband was at home in his country, but I don't know if he still had to sign papers for his son or not. We can give you general pointers here, but you really need concrete information about this one.

Queen of Sheba · Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 397

I just have to agree that 8000 SAR is rather low for 10 years plus experience. A single mom must have many concerns on her mind and I respect your position and outlook on doing things your way, but life can be very hard for a single woman in KSA, much less a single woman with child. Having said all of that, its not an impossible task that you suggest, and since you are into your books and baby, you may not get as bored as most expats in KSA do. Finding a nanny won't be hard once you are working and meeting people, but you won't have that luxury of finding a "good" nanny right away as you will need someone full time right away to sit at home with the baby. Those first few weeks will be the hardest, I would suggest making efforts at finding a nanny immediately, even if that means asking that your contacts at PSU, if you take the job, find you a nanny, perhaps waiting for you upon your arrival in KSA. It's worth a try - otherwise it may take weeks to find someone at all.

I would not shrug off the serious concerns over PSU, and there are other places to apply if you are serious about coming to Riyadh. Keep in mind that PSU is usually desperate for fresh blood given their high bloodsucking, I mean turnover rate, so you may have more leverage than you think. This desparation also accounts for their pleasant phone manner. Write a post after term 1 at the asylum to update us on the mental state of the union there. In any case, I hope things go your way and you land a job that works out for you and your little one.

Amenti · Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject:

I really have to agree with both of the Queens, Cleo and Sheba, there are better and worse places to work.
And just for everyones info I believe the latest body count at PSU is about 14. More than half of the English Dept. and one Dept. Head of Computers and a computer teacher!!!!!!!! I am doing the dance of joy, and celebrating their demise!!!!!
I will collect their sorry b**** on the other side of the river!!! Twisted Evil

Queen of Sheba · Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 397

Dear Goddess of the Underworld, as a mortal, I must say that I admire your powers, and hope to offer you sacrifices upon your alter one day. Thank you for your continued services in the mortal world.

loribethlarsen · Joined: 19 Jun 2006 Posts: 7 Location: Minnesota, USA

Thanks for all your advice. I took it seriously...negotiated with them...didn't get anything better...so didn't take it. I'm thinking about PMU..had an interview. But, I'm also still talking with S. Korea (daycare will be about half my salary there as well), Thailand, and Micronesia. Don't feel very worried yet. Alas alack, though that's better than here...here it's at least 3/4 of my salary, if not more. So, 1/2 is not bad.

but, I did want those of who added advice to know that it was considered carefully. If you have any regarding the new facilities in Dammam with PMU...I'll take those as well. Smile

I'm negotiating the 'education allowance' be applied to childcare. Hmmm. We'll see. Although I don't really see why not...I guess I don't really know how it works, but if its an allowance...I don't need to put my little one in school yet.

Oh, and I've applied for some places in the ME other than Saudi...just haven't heard anything. Don't know why...not quite as needy, as you said.
thank you.