Job Discussion Forums

[Cleopatra]

Obviously, "paradise" is a highly personal concept. One person's idea of a dream job/location might be another's idea of hell.

But let's try to look at it as objectively as poss. In terms of the things which just about everybody wants - good salary, decent working conditions, chance to make a decent social life, good living conditions, nice studetns - where would be the all-round best EFL destination?

As I understand it, Japan used to be TEFL paradise in the 80s. I have a friend who worked there then and he said it was basically a money-for-nothing dreamland. However, I've heard things have gone downhill considerably since then, with the devaluation of the yen, the increasing competition from other teachers, and heaveir workloads.

In some ways, the Gulf countries are great destinations: excellent salaries and benefits, low working hours, good weather most of the year, good travel opps. However, the Gulf is not everyone's idea of paradise!

So, where is?

[biffinbridge]

Cleopatra stated that'"In some ways the Gulf countries are great destinations."Erm,not if your a heterosexual,single male.Working practices aside,which can be pretty dreadful,you'll love the Gulf if you like going to virtually all male bars,(except for the hooker filled dives of Bahrain and Dubai),all male clubs,all male everything.You soon get sick of the 'dune bashing' and the weekly jaunt to the 'last of the empire' folk night soon makes Jack a dull boy.Women on the other hand often love the Gulf.As the old joke goes.A man and woman were flying back from the Middle East...as the plane touched down in the UK the man said to the woman'"How does it feel to be ugly again".Catch my drift?

[struelle]

[Cleopatra]

Biffinbridge,

You seem to be thinking of EFL destinations solely in terms of sexual opportunities! As a single woman about to depart from KSA, I would totally disagree with your contention that "women love the Gulf". Not KSA, they don't! Men have it MUCH easier here!

OK, sure you do get a lot of attention from local men, but they would ogle anything in an abaya. Plus, you won't find many foreign women with half a brain cell getting involved with a Saudi man as the possible social and legal complications might be too nasty to think about.

I do agree with you though, about the tedium of colonial style ex-pat nights. But I don't agree that women enjoy them anymore than men do. Some folks of either gender, strangely enough, do actually like that sort fo thing, but I'm not one of them.

[Gordon]

Sounds like if you have a family, the Gulf is a better place to be. I have a built in entertainment unit.

[denise]

I have enjoyed the few places I've worked, but I have not yet found "paradise." I know what qualities paradise would have, though (in no particular order): salaries high enough for me to pay back loans and still live comfortably; a mild climate akin to my beautiful hometown of San Diego; an ocean, preferably within walking distance and on which I can nurse coctails; inquisitive students who are capable of thinking critically and inductively; and (sorry, Cleopatra!) MEN!!! Either other foreigners who don't only go for trophy local girlfriends--ooooops, is my bitterness seeping out again?!?!?--or locals who treat women with respect, dignity, yada yada yada...

Oh, and of course women would have to have complete social freedoms--I don't want to go to a place where I'd get funny looks for walking into a pub by myself or buying certain personal items in stores.

Does anyone know of a place that fits these criteria? Many thanks! (Not that I'm not loving Japan, though!)

d

[Capergirl]

@Denise...If men are a priority on your list, I would say Asia is pretty well out. Since you have worked (are working?) in Japan, you know what I'm saying. I don't know any place that matches all of your criteria, but I'd definitely love to hear about such a place if it exists.

The pay in Taiwan is good, students are for the most part easy to teach and well-behaved, the food is pretty good (loved the street vendors) and it is a tropical climate (35-40C in summer, 10-15C in winter). However, the super fast-paced lifestyle and crazy driving are turn-offs for me, so I can't imagine ever going back there.

The pay in Korea is decent, food's not bad (Korean BBQ is awesome), but the climate is similar to Japan's I think (i.e. it snows in the wintertime) and the students are horrid. There's no other way to put it. They are little monsters - I've never seen children so poorly behaved.

Anyway, those are the only places I have taught EFL (I'm currently in Canada teaching ESL), so I can't comment on other destinations. I am interested in teaching in Japan at some point myself, although the possible lack of male company is something to consider.

England is still on my list of possibles for next year. It's technically ESL, not EFL, but England is just different enough from Canada to be a little bit "exotic" to me. It doesn't have a tropical climate, but I loved the place when I visited in April. As for the students there, it would probably be a mix of nationalities like I have here in Canada, which I am used to now (and I like). As for men, from what I remember about my visit, they are much more "gentlemanly" than the ones I meet here in Eastern Canada. In the two weeks I was there, I didn't see any bar-brawling nor did any of the local men say anything lewd to me at the bars. So it was kind of in between the Asian experience and the Canadian.

[Wolf]

I've noticed that a lot of people seem to shoot on and on and on (and on and on and on) about how great Shanghai is ("What do you mean you can't get 8000 RMB per month/minute/nanosecnd in China?! What do you mean people stare at you in China!? I live in Shanghai and . . ." [sound of Wolf losing interest in digust.])

Japan wasn't bad at all. The good ol' days are over. Your base salry as an EFL teacher will be notably less than your average (full time) office drone. But it's enough to live on in comfort if you're careful and single. Part time work abounds. Actually I had a hard time finding adverts for full time positions. Job satisfaction was something that got to me after a while - but then again this time last year I was even more of a nervous wreck than I am now.

Non - economic miracle China has its charm. But I don't think that it would be most peoples' idea of paradise.

[Cleopatra]

Don't get me wrong, Denise!

Handsome men are also on my priority list, but contact with the opposite sex is by no means my only priority! In fact, the men in the Gulfa re actually very good looking and very charming, but, as I said, a wise woman would do well to look but not touch in this part of the world - despite the fact that walking down the street for five minutes will get you more 'offers' than you'd get in five months elsewhere!

Still, I'm hoping to come back to the Gulf, though probably not KSA. Despite the moaners, it's got a lot going for it. It hasnt' been that long since I was working in jobs where I had to spend half my life on purblic transport going from lesson to lesson, and where I had to work early morning and late evenings on the same day, sometimes fro crappy pay. so, everything is relative.

PS Denise, love your avatar!

[denise]

[Sez]

[cabbagehead]

Straight up Sez

Capergirl, don't go to Stockton on Tees on a Saturday night whatever you do

[Roger]

However objective we might be in looking at our chosen abode, paradise is a subjective qualifier.
To me, any place can become paradise, though never for the whole life. IT is a temporary condition, mainly of one's mind.
Right now, I am feeling PERFECT - having had a great day, listening to those spheric melodies in Santorini by Yanni, and going over a sunny, yet pleasantly-warm (not hot!) day.
The thing is you should feel at home. Strangely enough, in this foreign land full of immoral predators I feel anchored, rooted, settled.
I was happy for an entire year without any major hiatus, really happy. OK, this is not the norm. The more regular frame of mind is one of expecting something to go terribly wrong - and be proven wrong, in which case you feel elated. But over time I have also learnt to remain in charge of my own life, to have the upper hand even when the chips are down. This feeling - knowing how to survive the next few difficult months - is unique and borders on bliss!

[Gordon]

Well said Roger.

Two people working at the same school, living under similar conditions, can have a very different experience. It's all about perspective.

I often see the people who have a miserable time overseas are those with preconceived notions of how things should be and when they always compare their life to what it was like in their home country.

One problem I had when I first came to Japan is I compared the price of food to home. I would feel disgusted at the cost of fruit and vegies until a friend (who has lived here for over 50 years) reminded me of the idiocy of it all. "You're not in Canada so don't compare. You can't buy food from there now." Good advice.

[Cleopatra]

Gordon,

You make an excellent point.

Here in KSA - where most people come 100% for the money - people non-stop compare their own countries to here. Needless to say, the comparisons - in their minds - invariably show how wonderful life at home was compared to life in this 'dump'.

Which begs the questions: why did you ever leae?