Job Discussion Forums

[guest of Japan]

Steiner, to many Japanese people WWII is when the bombs dropped in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That's pretty much the way the history textbooks describe things.

Japan doesn't like to look at history deeply until every possible person who could be implicated has been dead for at least two generations. Many historians argue that history can not be viewed clearly if it is in the recent memory of the people.

Please be aware that there are many many enlightened Japanese people. With that said, WWII is just not the best conversational choice.

[ruggedtoast]

Considering that half my students respond to the question

"What hobbies do you have?"

with

"err.......... ummm....... er.. sleeping."

I would never dream of attempting a political discussion with them.

[lajzar]

For those of you who were wondering what the Japanese education system says about WW2, this is from a JHS English book:

"In 1945, a bomb fell on Hiroshima. Many people died."

No explanation of who dropped the bomb, why, or even that there was a war going on at the time, let alone who was fighting. I am led to believe that the history school books deal with this topic in about as much detail.

This is why Japanese are a little fuzzy on history

[Lynn]

[Glenski]

[lajzar]

I spoke to a social studies (nearest thing the school had to a history teacher) teacher. This was about the limit of his knowledge of WW2.

[shmooj]

Yeah, I'm with lajzar on this.

On Aug 15th last I asked students what was special about the day. No one in my adult classes knew it was the anniversary of the end of the war.

I am pretty well read on Japan's involvement in WW2 and I have spoken many many times to (can't say with ) Japanese people about it and come up with zilch apart from how much they all suffered at Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

Mind you, and bearing in mind what Lynn says, most Brits of my generation (30 somethings) know absolutely nothing about the British Empire's extent and how it was won and lost. They just know that we had one. This sounds very similar to Japanese attitudes to the war. In fact, my generation knows more about the Industrial Revolution and Henry VIII than we do about the British Empire. That should tell you something about where the fault lies - crap history classes IMHO.

[Nagoyaguy]

Glenski;

I think that Lasjar:s point was that the entire topic of the war is totally decontextualized, no matter where or how it is presented. The quote is from a text called New Horizon 2, used for second year junior high students. It just further plays into the "Japan as a victim" attitude that is so prevalent here.

I have no idea why the material is even presented in English class here. The texts try to teach social conscience along with English, and fail miserably at both. I mean, the same book has a story about an Emerald Lizard taken from a Guatemalan folk tale. What the hell is a story about Guatemala doing in an ESL text in Japan? There is no relevance, except it makes a few people feel like they are doing something quote unquote international.

[homersimpson]

Speaking of being "fuzzy" about wars ... There are still people in the South who refer to the Civil War as "the War Between the States." And how much do you remember about the Vietnam War in your U.S. History class in high school? Wars have an interesting effect on nations and how people choose to remember them (especially if you come out on the "losing" end).

[Steiner]

The real southerners remember the U.S. Civil War as "The War of Northern Aggression."

To add another offshoot to the discussion, is it possible to find accurate accounts of what happened? In the States you can read the most scathing attacks on America and its involvement in just about anything from its history--the treatment of Native Americans, slavery, Japanese internment camps in WWII, dropping the atom bombs, Vietnam, etc.

In China, it is not possible to find good information about stuff like the Great Leap Forward or the Cultural Revolution. Americans apparently love to demystify their leaders--fascination with Thomas Jefferson's illegitimate child and George Washington as slave owner, for example. The Chinese aren't allowed to see their past for what it is--the books that are critical are banned.

As for being taught in school, I remember being taught about Vietnam in HS history (I think my teacher had been involved in protests when he was younger).

Could the Japanese learn about their history if they wanted to, or has no one found it really necessary to delve into the past?

[shmooj]

Yeah, they could. When I refer to events etc the students usually always say something like "oh yeah... that" and tell me that there are books out there to read on the shelves. But not one Japanese I have spoken to about this has ever admitted reading about the war to me and I've spoken to ... ooh maybe ten or so which makes my conclusions pretty watertight on this forum

[nomadder]

It is interesting to see how history might be whitewashed in certain countries. Being from a country that hasn't done too much negative in international scenes(that we know of-problems in Africa and...) and that now bends over backwards to help any minority it might have offended intentionally or inadvertently(what's the new word for eskimo this week? hint) I wonder what countries think about their past. I remember hearing that Japan had a bad emperor as the excusefor the war. Anyone know what they study in Germany? Maybe "well Hitler was Austrian and ....."

[tjpnz2000]

As per usual a possibly interesting topic falling into flames and rants over 20 paragraphs. To any newbies that have wandered in, WELCOME TO DAVES!

Here is my point;

`We` (teachers, prespective teachers and the like in Japan) are here because we are interested in Japan. We therefore know much more about Japan, even before we arrive than the average person in our home countries. Japan is our area of interest and holding the general Japanese citizen to this standard is unfair.

For example:
What is the state flower of Viginia?

What is the tree on the nation flag of Syria?

What is South Africas national flower?

What is New Zealands favourite plant?

See, plants are my area of interest. See how ignorant you all are!

T

[ScottishMike]

True about the specialist knowledge, but many of my students (in Japan) are here because they "want to communication with foreign person". (This must be taught in schools, it`s statistically impossible for so many people to say the exact same incorrect sentence).

Anyway, basically I think Japanese society encourages people to accept the information given, and not to research their own.

Only in the last year or two have i noticed internet usage taking off, and if people are going to look for something, they don`t seem to know how to do it.

Of course this is a marketers dream. Why do you think that the TV commercials are the way they are?

(Rant beginning - going to stop now.)

[Gordon]

Look on the bright side, students believe everything we say. Give them an outrageous statistic and they'll believe you. I don't think Japanese teachers tease them or joke with them.