Job Discussion Forums

[TEAM_PAPUA]

I think you need to take up a hobby, or at least go outside and meet some people

[guruengerish]

[uilleannpiper]

Well, if your only motivation in life to improve things is how much money you get for doing it then that tells others a lot about your outlook on life. If, on the other hand, when you realise that you are going to need a real job - one which provides for your retirement and all the other benefits - and if ESL/language teaching is your thing, then you are going to have to deal with all the theories and methodologies that go with it, that is, if you ever want to break free from the EF thing.

GuruEngerish....obviously you haven't read any of my previous posts. I happen to have done just that, in Java, teaching at EF. I also have had enough of an interest in teaching language that I came home and furthered my knowledge of language learning and teaching, SLA (most on this forum probably don't know what that is) and other areas of linguistics. I recently completed a Masters degree in Javanese Socio/Anthropological linguistics for which I also received an award for academic excellence (just in case others are wondering about my credentials) - not that that is anything to boast about. Anyone can do that as long as you know how to play the academic game and learn to adequately fit your data in with your theory. I did that part time, while maintaining a job, HOBBIES, and seeing FRIENDS.

TP, what makes you think that because I could adequately demonstrate to Gugelhpf that I had a good understanding of that which he thought I was dismissing, that I have no friends or hobbies? If you're going to take what could have been a serious and healthy discussion and turn it into a slagging match then so be it. As for this forum - obviously you're all too busy whining about how little money you get to have the time to enter into serious discussion. I guess that's the nature of the ESL industry these days.

[gugelhupf]

In defence (-se) of textbooks...

I don't disagree with anything you say about the value of authentic material in the classroom - it's all true. I think we have to agree to differ about the value of a core textbook, however. Of course, it is impossible to talk about 'textbooks' as an homologous lump. Some are absolutely vile, some are quite unsuitable for particular situations, and none are remotely perfect - but some are more equal than others.

I supervise 4 English teachers directly and teach classes myself. At least two teachers work with each of 12 classes in three year groups. We work to a curriculum and all classes in the same year group take common assessment exams at the end of each semester. We use a textbook series that best fits our own curriculum - Cutting Edge - because without the structure of a core text the logistics of getting everyone to coordinate together if they were each designing their own materials for every session is nightmarish. Also throw into the pot that I won't always get the quality of bule teachers that I would like...

Of course all teachers supplement the textbook material at virtually every lesson, but the core text is there so that if teacher X dies/is sick/quits I don't have to read through a semster's worth of individual lesson plans to work out roughly where he/she is in the curriculum.

The language used in the graded textbook series that we use is no more 'artificial' than the carefully graded language that I use when in the classroom. By the same token, don't forget that authentic newspapers, magazines and even radio and TV programmes for 'native' English speakers also use graded language with a vocabulary range commensurate with the target audience. The Jak Post is edited using a custom electronic dictionary designed for this purpose, while western gutter tabloids presumably use an even more limited range.

It is true, quite true, that it is entirely possible to teach ESL to a high standard without students ever looking at a textbook. Given the cost of imported western English texts, then, there must be some pretty good reasons why most of us still use them.

[uilleannpiper]

I appreciate everything you're saying Gugelhupf. From a logistical point of view rather than a learning perspective, textbooks are probably better.

Where I currently teach our curriculum has been redesigned to fit the Task-based Method which does not require a textbook. It is structured, not along the traditional lines of perceived linguistic difficulty, but along modules focussing on a wide range of real-life topics.

Certainly, we have resources to use, and a textbook is often utilised, but only as a supplement.

Of course, this is not always successful owing largely to the less-than-ideal situation it is practiced in - a primary school - where lessons are generally dominated by behaviour management rather than any meaningful language learning.

But it does mean that it is still quite easy for another teacher to come and take over from where a previous teacher left off.

As for authentic language and all that - I admit I am not as strict as some are on the requirement for absolutely 'authentic' texts. Your point about real-life texts also containing graded language is true. Where I am coming from is from the perspective that a systematic textbook makes a lot of assumptions about what a student needs in terms of input at a predetermined point in time and so the texts that are 'created' are done so with those assumptions in mind. Teachers then fall into the trap of thinking that all students must start with present simple before being allowed to proceed onto supposedly more comlpex forms such as present continuous.

My baby daughter's 'big book of animals' has present continuous forms and present simple forms on the one page. Is she going to understand the simple before the continuous? SLA research shows she will probably not make any distinction at first. An adult learner may try and make a distinction possibly because our brains want us to analyse everything that child learners don't, but also because of our insistence on stuctured, systematic textbooks which indoctrinate us to believe that we need to understand the differences in linguistic structures in order to communicate.


I'll have to leave it there for the moment. Bell's just rung. Time to go back to another two hours of behaviour management.

Cheers,

UP

[sidjameson]

Yep, gotta have a lot of respect for people teaching kids. Crowd control is NOT my idea of meaningful work.

[uilleannpiper]

[TEAM_PAPUA]

[uilleannpiper]

[Salam]

Well...back to the original post.

The books I'd chosen (Energy for Junior High and Headway for Senior) have been deemed "too sexy" by the people at this Islamic School. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for text books that would not be so offensive. I'm drawing a bit of a blank at the moment to find something that is half-way decent but still clean enough.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.

[TEAM_PAPUA]

[Salam]

Believe me I know, I know.

Not helping though.

[guruengerish]

Seems someone was showing an ankle or similar. got to watch these things.

Speaking of people who probably never go outside of their schools, I once had a bright young guy come to study English, and I was the duty assessor that day, so asked him a few questions.

I asked what were his favourite books, and he told me that he was from a Pesantran (SP?) and he had only ever read the Koran, and of course, a lot of comics. A nice, broad education.

Is it any wonder, when I asked some students if they knew where Australia was in relation to any other country, I got replies such as 'next to Holland'!!

I then had a whole heap of my Nat. Geographic maps laminated and put these up on the walls, and the kids were fascinated.

[Chancellor]