Job Discussion Forums

[joesgonnago]

Thank you to all who have made my decision to TEFL an easy one by responding to my posts. Please bare with me as I complete my first part of the process. Keep in mind that I plan to stay in China a minimum of 2-3 years, if treated somewhat humanely, and want to eventually do business in NY with and or in China. My secondary priorities are learning the customs and language of China and finally to travel. I have yet to complete a Oxford Seminar TESOL course. I will finish in late June....

I have been receiving several offers from all over China. Originally wanting something coastal and near an airport, I now am undecided. Weather isn't a driving force. I can handle the heat (from St. Louis where your twins are stuck to your leg all day in the summer) as well as a 4 month winter. I know the farther north and west - the colder it gets. Changchen is in Jilin province - an offer came in from Sino-Denver School. (I'll PM the details to who ask) I was told the weather is similar to what I described as bearable. I actually spoke to a current teacher who says "he's hasn't decided yet to sign a new contract or relocate to a different area." The teacher spoke highly of the treatment of FT's and facilities but reinforced the idea to be flexible. (has been allowed to save 3000rmb a month w/o living too tight)
He said that he was in Guangzhou for 2 years and that he couldn't really learn Mandarin because most spoke Cantonese, hence the 1st relocation. And it was hot, Africa hot. Which is cool because I could lose a couple pounds but the "twins " may beg to differ. I like Guangzhou because of it's proximity to Thailand and Hong Kong and yet.....
Andy Wong, Senior Advisor -Global Educational Consultants Ltd.
TEL: 07-5553528 has offered me a position in Southern Taiwan. I'd have to find the particulars about the job. What about the city?
I was just offered a FREE Summer Camp by TEFL International in Wenzhou for 2 months, 19 June to 17 August 2006. They pay for everything (flight, school, b.s. field trip) and then I teach for no pay. I assume that I can secure another position in China after that or even prior. Please- somebody throw these guys under the bus so I don't sign up soon Sounds too good? Oxford have a better reputation?

Thank you in advance for those that contribute.

[Voldermort]

I think you are refering to Changchun in Jilin province and not Changchen. There is another thread for changchun on here which you might like to read.

Which city to start in? hmm, I would say none. You ask to many questions without providing enough info. How can you say you want to spend 2-3 years here without even knowing where 'here' is? I would advise you to do some research before asking for help.

As for the 'free' summer camp you mentioned. What on earth are you smoking? please send me some. Why would you want to teach for 2 months for free? If you had done any research, you should have noticed that what you have mentioned is not a summer camp but is infact a private language school. A summer camp last's for a few weeks and usually pays a higher than regular salary.

[Shan-Shan]

Tianjin is tolerable, but lacks a lot of personality. This comes from personal impressions, and those of several Chinese I know (both natives and non-natives of the city).

Many students, when asked "what is special about Tianjin?" always gave the same response: "goubuli baozi" (a restaurant) or "mahua" (a food). Rather a shame for a place so large that very little stands out aside from food and places to buy cheap clothes.

Tianjin is under transition, about to transform into something sponsered by Pepsi. Heaps of construction sites piled on top of one another, and few places to escape. The city feels like it doesn't know where it is, or what it is. It's having a long, manic face lift bandaged in stages with photos and banners of what it hopes it will soon be.

If one is looking for sandal wood scented China, avoid Tianjin. If you would like to see the machine chugging along that is China forcing itself ahead, come, but make sure not to bring too many expectations along with you.


Despite all this negativity, or reality, I do have one point to assign Tianjin: 天津的煎饼果子倍儿好吃!

[joesgonnago]

[Voldermort]

Appologies Joe, I am having one of those days.

OK, so you're pretty much undecided as to which part of the country you would like to start off in. If you want to learn the language you should try to stay in the Beijing area. The further you venture the less pure the language will be. You say you could cope with the winters, but could you cope with a Chinese winter? In Changchun the classrooms were rarely heated. Most buildings have heating, but you are unable to control it, and rather than heating the place it simply stops the water from freezing.

If you are thinking about visiting all those wonderful and historical attractions you have heard about, think again. China is a large country and these places are spread out. You would need to travel during school holidays to have a good experience.

One thing I have noticed, go to a larger city and be treated like gum on the sidewalk, goto a smaller city and be treated like a human. I find that those places where there are many foreigners, the locals are quick to stereotype. Markets up their prices, schools require more persuading and you will always be a rich laowai.

Most cities in China are under development. There are building sites everywhere, with which comes the pollution. All the old buildings are being torn down to make way for a new high rise with a 'China mobile' office on the first floor. I must say, China is not as beutiful as I thought it would be.

I would recomend you start of in a smaller city just outside a larger one. This way you would have more time with the locals, learn the language and experience the culture. You could take a break and do some serious shopping in the larger city. Also you would not fall into the habit of spending all/most of your free time with the other foreigners in the area.

As for the free summer camp. Don't bother. Leave it for the backpackers. It would leave you with a sour taste in your mouth. I will bet anything that for 6 days a week you will be worked to near death. So what if they are paying your flight and accomodation every contract in China comes with these benefits. You would be much better off going to a reputable agency and allowing them to find you work for 2 or 3 months. Just to allow you to get your foot into the door. Once you are in China it becomes so much easier to find a job.

Personally I would recomend 'New Times international' based in shijiazhuang, just outside Beijing. I, among a few other forum users, have gone through this agency and have nothing but good things to say about them.

[joesgonnago]

Now that's what I'm talking about! That's exactly what I needed.

As far as the winters go, I have never experienced a Chinese one. But this one time in band camp.....ha!

I was in the Army for 4 years. The pay also was low, came with free room and board, the heat was rarely on, plus they made you stand outside for no apparent reason. I'm not only survived but have some good stories. Do they make you stand outside in China? If they do, can you smoke?

I get the fact you don't like it when people work for free. I understand that entirely. What about TEFL Int. as a company?

I have some money and could afford the airfare, course fees, and waiting a month to get paid if I had to. (but I'm not rich) If these guys are legit and will pay for it all - they can work me like a dog for 2 months. I get to stay in China and teach. Tell me I'm crazy.

As far as traveling, it's way down on my list. First, I'll have to figure out how far my salary will go according to my unique lifestyle. I've heard all people vacation nearly at the same time. I want to live/learn in China and see Thailand, Vietman, etc. Once I get there I'll have plenty of time and help (from the likes of you) to find the perfect getaway or historic building.

As far as the agency you mentioned- I'll look them up and apply.

love, peace, and a little hair grease.

[Roger]

A correspondent who claims he couldn't use MANDARIN in Canton, oops: Guangzhou, is telling you crock! There are far more Mandarin speakers here than Cantonese speakers. Half or more of the city's population hails from somewhere outside Guangdong.

And must I infer from your use of currency symbols that you are talking in terms of U.S. yuan?

[joesgonnago]

Roger-

You are the man and you know your stuff...but

This FT said he wanted to learn Chinese and that in G-zhou most spoke Cantonese. It was a barrier for him. (perhaps alone

What?? Explain it to me as if I were a 5 year old. Am I not converting the money correctly? 8 to 1, right? I have been offered positions at the usual rate of 5,000RMB, which is $625 US.

Are you speaking about the out of pocket costs versus the Free Camp?

Help me help you to help me.

And why won't anyone comment on TEFL Int.?

[2 over lee]

While I have nothing against goal setting per se, I would advise you not to go to the middle kingdom with a lot of concrete aims and ideas. One of the great pleasures of said kingdom is that it has a charming ability to blow away any preconceived ideas or logical plans of conquest.
In terms of wanting to do business, I guess you may be hinting at import-export, I would advise that you may need diversify your skills beyond learning Mandarin; unless you are already in biz in the US??

Now that I've got that pontification over with--I think I agree with Yunqi, go for a bigger city--in terms of Mandarin, no matter where you are you will be speaking English at work, BUT will have plenty of opportunity to speak Mandarin on the street. Local languages are a fact of life be it Wuhanese, Cantonese, Shanghainese, or bloody Javanese. Mandarin is a lingua franca growing in strength--and I would suggest in tentative fashion-standardness. How good you become in Mandarin relies more on effort and ability than location-IMO.

[klaus]

i'm on Roger's side with this one. anybody who tries to tell you about going places where there is "pure" mandarin and being forced to speak cantonese in gangdong or in fact being forced to speak any dialect of chinese in any part of china due to the lack of "pure" mandarin speakers is telling you nonsense and obviously cannot speak putonghua.

putonghua (mandarin) is the national language of china and is spoken absolutely everywhere in china. as with english there will be always be slight regional differences in accent, and there will more often than not be a regional dialect spoken in any particular place that will vary from mandarin to a certain degree, and might even be unintelligible to those from other places. it doesnt mean that people there wouldn't use mandarin as a matter of course anyway.

as in places such as the US and the UK dialects here can vary distinctly from village to village. nobody is going to speak to someone else (chinese or otherwise) in a particular regional dialect when they are well aware the listener is not from the same region.

anybody who has lived in guangzhou or any large metropolis in guangdong and who can speak and understand a moderate amount of putonghua would know that a large proportion of people there are from more northern areas and dont speak cantonese. very few of the hundred million or so northerners who have made their homes in guangdong ever get around to trying to learn cantonese. there would be no point because everyone speaks mandarin!

[tw]

Beware of Oxford Seminars job placement service for its graduates! You are better off finding a job yourself. I activated my job placement service in May and the so-called coordinator never took the initiative to contact me other than to confirm that she had received my activation and later, the documents needed to process my case. I was told a recruiter had been working on my behalf to find me a job but I never heard from this recruiter, or any others that the coordinator later told me she had given my documents to. When I e-mailed her, she told me that because (1) I was not a university degree holder and (2) because of my Chinese background the recruiter was having a difficult time finding positions for me. She also used this excuse that because I had "insisted" on working in Dalian it made things more difficult. That was of course a lie because I had only said that my preferance was Dalian, but never did I say Dalian ONLY. As for the no-degree and Chinese-face problems, I received plenty of job offers from my own job search and even had to turn down a few contracts before deciding on well-paying job in a northeastern Chinese university.

The Oxford Seminars course is useful for anyone without any teaching experience. To me it was just spending some money to buy a piece of paper in order to increase my marketability.

[Songbird]

Inner China....let 'em earn their stripes like I did !

[cubit]

Roger & klaus,

Sorry, but I'm pretty damm sure that I am the teacher that Joe spoke to and I meant exactly what I said.

Joe said

[nolefan]

Howdy!

I'm voting for Tianjin because if I had to do it all over again, I would choose to go there.
The city is cosmopolitan enough to ease the culture shock, It's got it's fair share of restaurants and supermarkets with access to basic necessities and more.
It has a bit of personality and you will definitely be able to have the 'China Experience' there unlike in Beijing or Guangzhou where it is tooooo easy to slip into a foreign bar/foreign restaurant/ foreign buddies lifestyle.

Business wise, Tianjin is an SEC with a number of multinationals headquartered there. It's home to one on the top 3 ports in China and a lot of import/export business goes through it.