Job Discussion Forums

[SuppaTime]

I know there have been a lot of threads about "sham exams" and the low standards at a lot of the uni's here. I'm at one of those uni's where basically everyone passes. I've just been wondering about what Eng. Dept. deans really think about the standards. But I've been wondering about it from a particular angle: I've become pretty friendly with some of my really good students. And a few of them have told me (unsolicited) that they don't like the standard that everyone passes, because they know that ultimately it's not productive. And I would assume those good students are a lot of the people who actually go on to become Eng. Dept. deans (hopefully anyway). So I know for the deans, having the students pass is a matter of "face" and looking successful. But I wonder what they really think about it themselves -- maybe some of them too are trapped in a system they don't like? Has anyone ever gotten close enough to a dean to get his/her true opinion about it? Thx .... Suppa

[Leon Purvis]

All I can say is that the one and only time I went to my school's dean's office, there was a woman sleeping on his leather couch.

This was during office hours.

So I suppose the dean of my school doesn't care much about anything.

[tw]

All the deans really care about is you give good scores so the school looks good on paper. They could care less whether their students' English improve or not. If the scores are too low then either you are a bad teacher, or the exam was too difficult.

Public schools hire FT's not to help their students improve their English, but to justify the tuition and to increase student enrolment.

[Mr D Improbably]

As I see it, the corruption and 'keeping up appearances' methods in China are absolutely systemic. Students who tell you that they don't like it do so because they're outside the system, but if they were to become teachers they could not become successful without entering that system. It works like politics in the west except it's more universal- the first step to getting anywhere is to compromise any values you might have had.

(that may have sounded cynical)

[lf_aristotle69]

[Brian Caulfield]

Deans are the same all over the world . If there are no complaints about the teacher , the teacher is good .
I really don't undertand why so many post here about the poor quality of education in China . How does this affect your teaching ? You have a job to do whether you give your students 100's or 50's. What really counts is your feeling of whether your students have improved as a result of your teaching .

[ColinA]

[Teababy]

ColinA/Urbanex, you just blatantly contradicted yourself in your post.

At first: Teaching is more than just being a native speaker.

Later: Don't take it seriously.

Which way do you go?

[ColinA]

Dear Teababy,
There are many subjects being taught besides Conversational English and there are any number of places where teaching is taken much more seriously and with a great deal more morality than in China. Rarely did I feel that my teaching background was necessary to meet the demands of a FT in China. In other words, an outgoing person with no resources save a sense of humour, could do quite well in a Middle school situation. Even as a uni lecturer, a senior education and a few social skills would suffice in most situations. Ask the thousands of backpackers and burger-flippers who travel China and get paid for it, quite successfully.
__________________________________________________
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Christopher Lasch

[Roger]

As long as the Chinese decide who passes in English exams it's bound to be sham exams! This is even more ture as there is overdemand for study places, hence no stimulus for institutions to adapt to market forces that require quality.

A little insight has however come to the Chinese from experiences students have made while studying in Hong Kong: there, imagination and analytical skills are goals of education that for mainlanders seem to be more elusive than for local students. At the same time, Hong Kong universities are trying to enroll more non-local students (foreigners and mainlanders) which can only benefit mainland students.

On the other hand, one keeps hearing that foreign universities, in an attempt at luring tuition-paying CHinese students, are constantly lowering their enrolment criteria. The latest to have contributed to this impression seems to be the BC.

[Brian Caulfield]

I stand corrected . Actually I would like to sit corrected . But when one goes hunting or baiting for bad things to say about the Chinese student's integrity ; I think one also must face the fact that China is full of people teaching English with bogus diplomas or no diplomas at all . Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

[ColinA]

[Brian Caulfield]

So China is changing about it's policy over pirating of property. You see the Chinese are tired of people taking their innovations and copying them . If you want to avoid the hassles just do all your testing orally .

[ColinA]