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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| If you have ever worked with Russians, then you know how they would bristle at hearing their country referred to as a wild land. |
I've never worked with Russians, no, but I do believe they have a healthy sense of irony - something which has clearly bypassed you. I think it was fairly obvious from the post you referred to that I was not myself referring to Eastern Europe as being in any way "wild". I was simply alluding to a particular mindset whereby many EFLers in that part of the world see themselves as urbane ambassadors bringing sophisticated, "Western" culture to the natives. Context eh?
And yes, I'm sure many Russians, not at all without reason, do consider themselves very civilised and cultured. It's good that you are attuned to the sensitivities of those you teach. However, since for some reason you see fit to post on a Middle East board, it might be worth pointing out that many Arabs and Muslims would also take the greatest offence at a poorly-informed American defending Israeli war crimes by a vague reference to 'Muslim terrorism'. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| GF wrote: |
| That's a fair comment and I apologize for offending anyone. I just get steamed with comments like Cleopatra's 'wildlands' because she obviously doesn't know what she is talking about (like me about the ME). Those wildlands are some of the most cultured places on the planet and their academic standards are very high. I stand corrected. I wonder if she does. |
Glad to see that you are man enough to see when you might have been off target. Mighty rare on this board!! 
I think Cleo has cleared up where you misinterpreted her post. The problem with the printed word is how easy it can be misunderstood...
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GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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You are right that the locals there would probably take offense at my comments about terrorism and again I apologize if anyone was offended by them. However, every intelligent person realizes that there are two sides to every conflict. I don't want to start a debate about who is right or wrong but surely you understand that the Israelis are not 100% wrong in this. For every atrocity the Israelis commit someone can point out one Muslims (I use this word because many acts have been carried out by non-Arab Muslims) have done and vice-versa. Both sides are right and both are wrong. In the end there is tragedy, sadness, anger and a desire for revenge. It seems like it will never end.
By the way, unlike many Americans I actually read the news on a daily basis so I am quite aware of what is going on in both the Muslim and Jewish worlds. And since I am in Tallinn, I teach Estonians not Russians. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| For every atrocity the Israelis commit someone can point out one Muslims (I use this word because many acts have been carried out by non-Arab Muslims) have done and vice-versa. |
Your remarks display the bigotry which is so common among supporters of Izz-reel. The usual nonsense about civilised Israel "retaliating" against "Muslims". How cute of you to add the little bit about 'acts' being done by 'non-Arab Muslims', as though Israel were bombing ambulances and relief convoys in Lebanon on behalf of the victims of 9/11 or the Madrid bombings. What nonsense!
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| And since I am in Tallinn, I teach Estonians not Russians. |
Read your own post. It was you who originally mentioned Russians, not me. |
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GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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You accuse me of bigotry but look at your own posts. You give the strong impression of having a totally one-sided view, your purposeful misspelling of Israel is silly for a mature adult to do and anyone reading your posts would say YOU are a bigot. Do you have any objectivity here? I didn't say anything about Israel retaliating, and I also didn't mention 9/11 or Madrid. Where did you get all of that?
Two posts ago I said 'Thank God the market here in Tallinn is too small to support more than a small handful of them.' This makes it pretty obvious I am in Estonia, though I realize many people don't know much about the country or its capital or even know where they are. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| your purposeful misspelling of Israel is silly for a mature adult to do and anyone reading your posts would say YOU are a bigot. |
Given that bigotry means a prejudice against an entire group of people, where is the evidence of this in my posts? Yes, I am extremely critical of Israel, and, as you have correctly pointed out, have never made and will never make any secret of that at all. Being critical of a country's policies, however, is not in any way the same thing as being a bigot. However, one can make a fair case that saying that any mention of Israeli aggressions is 'laughable' (as you did) because of the actions of "Muslims terrorists", and then going on to say that any Israeli crimes are matched by those committed by "Muslims" is s form of bigotry. What would you have said if I had referred to Israeli war crimes as "Jewish war crimes"?
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| I didn't say anything about Israel retaliating, and I also didn't mention 9/11 or Madrid. |
So what DID you mean? You say you keep up with world affairs. If so, you must know that Israel is currently waging war on Palestine and Lebanon, where most, but by no means all, of the local population are indeed Muslims. If you had made mention of acts done by Lebanese, or Palestinians, or, if you prefer, by Hamas or Hizballah, then your post might have made some sense, even if I still would not agree with your conclusions. But you did not do that. Instead, you talked about "Muslim terrorism" - not Palestinian or Lebanese terrorism. In other words, you blame over a billion people for the actions of a few people in a small and clearly defined area. To me, this is indeed bigotry.
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| This makes it pretty obvious I am in Estonia, |
Can you answer me this? Why did you come on this thread? It does not appear you have any interest or expertise regarding teaching in Saudi Arabia. It's getting tiresome pointing out your own mistakes but I'll try one more time. You - for reasons best known to yourself - pointed out that you teach Estonians, not Russians. As I said, it was you who referred to Russian earlier on, not me. I'll quote your own words to make it clearer:
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| If you have ever worked with Russians, then you know how they would bristle at hearing their country referred to as a wild land. |
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| I taught in Russian for nearly 5 years and another 2 in Estonia and I would bet a month's salary that the average Russian or Estonian student is far more culturally and academically educated than yours. |
If your purpose in coming on this board were to make yourself look silly, you're doing a good job. |
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GF
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 238
Location: Tallinn
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I have already apologized for my mistakes and will not do so again. As for being bigoted against Muslims, my one Afghan and two Azeri students would be surprised to find that out. I told you that I am not going to get involved in any Israeli-Muslim discussions or debates. There is too much venom involved and I don't see what useful purpose it would serve except to further inflame passions. Just remember that the silence of the majority is complicity, and that applies in all cases. With that final thought I will give you a gift and leave you in peace. |
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Cleopatra
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 3657
Location: Tuamago Archipelago
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I told you that I am not going to get involved in any Israeli-Muslim discussions or debates. |
You see? You're doing it again. Quite apart from the fact that you clearly have been involved in debate, you are again coming back to the - demonstrably false - notion that Israel is at war with "Muslims".
If you can't stand the heat... |
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