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newtefler · Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 80

help :0)

"to boldly go where no man has gone before"

it splits the infinitive.... If you were given the options of whether this uses the to-infinitive, the bare infinitive or no infinitive clause at all - what would you say?

I hate grammar :0( and I think Star Trek is even worse.

I'd hedge a guess at the to-infinitive?? but as they have rather annoyingly stuck boldly in there it's not technically the to-infinitive is it??

boo hiss :0(.....Please help... pretty please (preferably with an explanation rather than just the answer)

Golightly · Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject:

aggh, a grammar question!
It is probably the most famous example of a split infinitive. In fact, there is absolutely no logical reason why you cannot split infinitives in English; the convention of not doing so was a rather snobby borrowing from Latin grammar.

thrifty · Joined: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 1665 Location: chip van

What would a Scot say?

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

howmucharefags · Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 299 Location: Eskisehir

I'd say biscuit erse. It's Thursday and you should be planning how to optimize your drinking time as tomorrow is Friday. Don't waste your time with such trivial arsebanditry.

newtefler · Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 80

I agree with you whole-heartedly...... however, I foolishly signed up for an additional grammar module. I stupidly decided that not another beverage would pass my lips until I complete it. I have been refraining from pub lunches in favour of cracking on with the module. My absence from aforementioned watering hole has been noted by my colleagues and I am losing credibility in the workplace. Not to mention the fact that I appear to have developed a mild form of tourettes muttering "ggggrrrrr grammar feck... grrrr... gimmee a drink" at inopportune moments. Therefore, I plead... please assist before they have me bundled off to the nearest asylum.

thrifty · Joined: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 1665 Location: chip van

nearest TEFL mill more like

newtefler · Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 80

now now....quit being so mean... take a chill pill... I have never pretended to have a first in English... hence, I was asking for some help. That stuff is innate ability when you speak the language and lets face it unless you went to a boarding school or got taught English forty years ago (and was of the appropriate class) you would not have been taught grammar. I've noticed in classes that they ask "is that xxx grammar"

That is why I am worrying over grammar.. I know how to construct.. I'd get ripped apart in my job if I didn't... However,(yes.. I know.. I shouldn't) I don't need to tell anyone that this is the xyz modal/blah blah infinitive...blah blah.. I can understand why they ask because if you understand latin supposedly you can understand most of Europe..

p.s never studied any languages in depth.. Is English the only one that doesn't have feminine / masculine?

Freddie Miles · Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 91

I believe Golightly has the answer spot on. Just remember that if you stick to an rather outdated rule like the one you mentioned then inevitably you will be confronted in your course books with an example of quite the opposite usage.
Example, in one of my classes, a bright young thing asked me why you can say " The United Kingdom" but you dont say "The America". I was wily enough not to try to go through the maddening rules of articles. I blathered something about titles, I think. Whatever it was, the student seem satisfied with my on the spot answer.
But then on the very next page, the damned book had the unit chapter as "Discover the America you have always wanted to see". UGH!!

Worse is when you have explained a rule, and catch yourself breaking that same rule. Personally I like teaching grammar and I am not too bad with it, but I try not to get hung up on it. People can go nuts that way.

newtefler · Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 80

seems strange... I've got by stringing sentences together quite happily..... never thought about grammar... not formally taught and i'd hazard a guess few native speakers are.. My nan (grandmother) used to pick my dad and his sisters up on grammar... however, my dad can't spell for toffee.. uber intelligent bloke though.. When you think how cr@p the standard of the majority of native english speakers english is you do wonder why non natives worry :0)

newtefler · Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 80

I agree it's split... but if your only options were to-, none or bare-... whats your answer.... This is where CELTA can shine.. not taking P would have loved to have done CELTA... Is it a trick question?

Freddie Miles · Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 91

If you are teaching in Turkey, you ought to be able to explain ALL the ends and outs of Present Perfect Tense since they dont have it in Turkish and the whole concept of that tense tends to make even the most intelligent students go bug-eyed.
Gerunds and Infinitives can be very helpful to know about when starting out. Stick to prepostions about place in the earlier levels and dont let yourself get de-railed into phrasal verbs if you can help it. Utter quicksand in elemetary and pre-intermediate levels, I think.
And if you get yourself into a quagmire of grammar in the middle of the lesson, remain calm and say, "Hmm, that's a good question. I will find out for you."
You can't say that every lesson or the more clever students will undoubtably pick up on your ignorance. However, your honesty is generally appreciated. And anyway, Turks often have very little understanding of their own grammar so they wont expect you to be a bloody grammar machine either.

If I can be of any help, let me know. I will do my best to answer any questions you may have.

newtefler · Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 80

answer to original post would be a winner :0) It's split... doesn't give me option of split so is it to or none?

newtefler · Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 80

I like phrasal verbs.. leads quite nicely into colloquiaisms?.. spelt wrong I know... tried to give up carbs too... blame blood sugar

Freddie Miles · Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 91

okay the idea of a split infinitive is this. It is wrong, according to formal grammar teachers because, as we all know, Latin is the perfect language and in Latin the infinitives "to do" are a single word and therefore unable to be divided.
However, in English the infinitive form in made up of two words and could be split ( mistakenly, they think) Thus, to a strict grammarian, "To go boldly" would be preferable to "to boldly go" since "to go" is considered ( by said grammarians) to be one word in concept.

In fact, it is a load of rubbish and most teachers discard the entire concept that proper English ( whatever that is) should be based on Latin. It isn't worth bothering your head about it but that is, I believe, the answer.