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Bounder
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Nanjing, China
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 Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 2:56 am Post subject: Employer keeping Foreign Expert's Certificate |
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>Hi. I've been teaching in China for 3 years now. I'm now working
for a private school that insists on keeping our Foreign Experts'
Certificate (red book). They say we "might lose them?" My previous employer let us keep them and indeed I kept my old one with me at all times and always had it with me when I travelled.
My present employer's rule that we hand them over doesn't sound right. Are there any other teachers whose employers require that they hand over their red book? I assume they're the property of the Chinese government but they are after all issued to the foreign worker, not the employer. I'm going to ask for my red book back. Any opinions on this issue?
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 3:18 am Post subject: Re: Employer keeping Foreign Expert's Certificate |
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| Bounder wrote: |
I'm now working for a private school that insists on keeping our Foreign Experts' Certificate (red book). They say we "might lose them?" My previous employer let us keep them and indeed I kept my old one with me at all times and always had it with me when I travelled.
My present employer's rule that we hand them over doesn't sound right. Are there any other teachers whose employers require that they hand over their red book? I assume they're the property of the Chinese government but they are after all issued to the foreign worker, not the employer. I'm going to ask for my red book back. Any opinions on this issue? |
On the back of the FEC, it states:
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| b. The Certificate is to be used as an identification card for foreign experts working in China, valid for the period stated above. It should be returned to the organization that issued the certificate before the bearer leaves China. |
Indeed, your employer has NO right to keep your FEC. I am guessing they either think it is THEIR property since they had applied for it, and/or is afraid that you might pull a runner and use it to teach somewhere else. Insist on having it back. Tell them you need it as an ID and you need it for currency exchange.[/b] |
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HunanForeignGuy
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Shanghai, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: FEC |
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TW is correct.
You need only return the Certificate when you leave the employer. And when you do that, they MUST give you a stamped letter that says that you have returned the Certificate.
TW is again also correct. Tell them that you need it to change foreign currency, etc., etc. Tell them that your Consulate wishes to see it for whatever reason. And then hold onto it.
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| In Beijing and many places now you need to have the FEC when applying for another job..the possession of the FEC may help in a smooth transactions from one job to the other and without it you may have to take the medical over..it doesn't matter so much that you have the FEC while working at an organization..be sure to get it upon leaving a work unit. |
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HunanForeignGuy
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 989
Location: Shanghai, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: The Rules |
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cj750 is perfectly correct.
These are the new rules. I did not have to take my medical over in Harbin because I produced a copy of the FEC (the school kept it). Also to avoid a medical up north, you will need a letter of release.
In any case, to the OP -- make sure that you get it back.
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Bounder
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Nanjing, China
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| Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for your replies. I didn t think they could keep it and of course the points about changing currency, the medical and possibly applying for another job are right on. I've just received word that one of the higher managers agrees with me on this. I'll ask for it back. Thanks again.
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clarrie
Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: Try logic! |
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Had a similar situation one time where the particular college wanted/kept all the foreign expert books. I told them to keep the rest and give me mine. Their response to not wanting to give it to me, apart from keeping it safe and me not losing it? 'Well, you have to give it back before you leave!'
My question to them was, 'Well if I have to give it back to you that means I have to have it to give it to you.' Whoa, spun 'em out!
In the end I told them to do what ever they liked, but they might like to contact the State Bureau of Foreign Experts in Beijing to confirm the legality of their actions.
I got the booklet!
You're 100% correct, it's yours! |
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Calories
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 361
Location: Chinese Food Hell
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Besides sending money out of the country, what do you use it for? |
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tw
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 3898
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Calories wrote: |
| Besides sending money out of the country, what do you use it for? |
ID. Would you carry your passport around and have it lost or stolen, then having to go to your embassy to get it replaced and thus having to get a new RPF sticker etc etc etc? |
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Calories
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 361
Location: Chinese Food Hell
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| I don't carry either around. Am I supposed to be carrying identification with me every where I go? |
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MITCH
Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 58
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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A cynical comment, but one i believe to be true.
A manager or employer who keeps someones passport or foreign experts certificate is someone who fears you may leave prematurely.
He/she thinks that he has control over you if he has your documents in his filing cabinet.
This person should be trusted just as much as he trusts you.
I've had it happen a couple of times (passport and expert certificates filed away indefinitely), and these are the biggest crooks in China.
But in the end if you don't have your Foreign Experts certificate, and you apply for another job, you'll get another one. You can always say you lost your last one. And it's true.
I got my passport back by saying i need to change my money.
I got the expert certificate by asking my manager for it every time i saw him.
In the end with that crook in Shanghai i never returned the certificate, thats another story.....
Good luck and keep punching. |
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no_exit
Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 565
Location: Kunming
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| Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| MITCH wrote: |
I've had it happen a couple of times (passport and expert certificates filed away indefinitely), and these are the biggest crooks in China.
But in the end if you don't have your Foreign Experts certificate, and you apply for another job, you'll get another one. You can always say you lost your last one. And it's true.
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NEVER work for a school that wants to keep your passport. Non-negotiable. As for the FEC, I run into very few instances where I actually need it, and returning it at the end of your contract is fairly normal (although you should be able to have it on you while you're still working for the school that provided it), as the schools supposedly have to hand them in as well. You can get around having to take the medical again by producing your health certificate from your previous health check (provided it hasn't expired), and they will get you a new FEC. Sometimes your school will just keep your health certificate, and some teachers have never even seen theirs, but it exists. It is a little reddish brown booklet and it certifies you healthy and disease free. That puppy belongs to you and you alone and you don't have to return it ever. Even after they apply for the residence permit and the FEC, they should give it back to you. |
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tazmania
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
A manager or employer who keeps someones passport or foreign experts certificate is someone who fears you may leave prematurely.
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And why would you leave prematurely..?
Totally correct in my experience. They do this because it gives them more power and the ability to bully/control the FT. If your employer wants to keep your documents, in my experience, it is only the beginning of worse things to come...
My former employer in Changchun held onto my FEC, infact he kept them all in a drawer, locked in his desk. All of the other FTs (new to China) didn't even know of the existance of such a document and when I asked to have it, he told me that
'We need it in case there are checks from government officers'
I told him that he could keep a photocopy if he really wanted to, and that I would return the original upon the expiry of the contract - in exchange for a letter stating such.
He point-blank refused to hand it over. It seems that if your boss really wants to hold onto your FEC, you are virtually powerless to get it - despite it being your document for the duration of the contract.
regarding the passport:
At least in Changchun anyway, many of the companies can cancel your residence permit (and replace it with a 30 day tourist visa or something shorter!) if they have your passport in their possession. |
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dragon777
Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 163
Location: Christmas Island
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I needed it to get a bank loan...if that's any help. |
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NathanRahl
Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| If I were you I'd go a hunten for another job. Any place that wants to hold onto your documents doesn't trust you, because they are not trustworthy. Those who are coniving and sneaky expect it of others, they only have themselves to go off of as a model after all, so they expect you to be coniving and sneaky too. Knowing that, I'd hunt elsewhere for work, surein there is better out there, trust me. |
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