Job Discussion Forums

[sallycat]

[SeasonedVet]

sallycat,

I was of the impression that using CAPITALS meant shouting. I didn't know that using large font meant shouting too.
Why do I do it? because the regular font is hard on my eyes.

You don't know my age or condition.

Anyway if there is a consensus or rule on this board that large font means shouting then I will use regular font like everyone else.

[Apsara]

I wondered if it was an eye thing. This font is pretty small.

[Topo Gigo]

If you are using a mac, hold the apple key and press the + key, abracadabra...big text.

I'm sure PCs have the same thing somewhere.

To be relevant to the thread, I have a Japanese male friend, but am not yet in Japan, so I don't know if that makes a difference -he's been in the Uk for quite a few years now so perhaps that's changed him?.

BTW, has anyone read Culture Shock Japan by Sean P. Bramble? I've just finished it and was a bit annoyed by the author as despite being married to a Japanese woman and having lived there for many years, it came across as though he just didn't like the Japanese or their culture. He didn't really make any effort to understand 'different' behavior or point out good aspects. I realise that the point of the book is to alert people to what will be different etc, but as someone who is about to visit I was looking forward to experiencing this different culture, and from where I am now, it looks fascinating.
It seems,reading through this and other threads, that many people seem to have this attitude - living there, but not actually liking a lot about the people. Is this right, or is it just a case of using this forum to blow off steam about a few 'annoying habits'?
My Japanese friend left Japan as he didn't like the hierarchical structure. If native Japanese don't like it there, am begining to worry that I've been wearing my rose tinted glasses..

[AndyH]

Most of the gaijin I know and work with who haven't made Japanese friends are the types who make little or no effort to learn the language or appreciate the culture. They spend every night drinking with their American/Canadian co-workers, don't go out of their way to reciprocate when Japanese people are friendly to them, and "are too busy" to learn anything about this country.
In the approximately four years I've been in Japan, I've made a lot of good friends. However, I'd agree with others who say it is easier to become friends with women than men. I have had a few good friends who were men (mostly in Hokkaido), but for the most part, they seem to be almost always too busy with work, and when they aren't, they're totally exhausted. Also, Japanese women seem to go out of their way to strike up friendships with foreigners a lot more than men, for the most part.

[cafebleu]

When you get there, you'll find that in a way it's easier for you as a foreigner. You're not expected to do everything or even most things the Japanese way - and in fact most Japanese you meet will try to ensure you never get close enough to be part of the whole Jp system in a real sense.

It's a positive thing in one way. Who wants to be like the Japanese? When you live there for a while and really know the culture you'll understand what I mean.

I made some good Japanese friends - but they're are progressive and by that I don't mean in an ideological way. I mean that they never have pulled the "We are Japanese and you are an outsider" stunt that is common in Japan. It's usually never expressed so directly - but it is there in many ways and can cause a lot of hurt to foreigners who took Jp people at face value and found out later their friendship meant nothing to the same people.

My husband and I go back to Japan when we can - and we always catch up with our Japanese friends. I got burnt the first year or so in Japan by wasting time with female friends who put all sorts of subtle barriers up to developing a real friendship and were in it for some kind of utilitarian purpose. You'll learn the difference between those people and friends by trial and error. Don't worry too much about it, take each situation as it comes.

As for Sean Bramble's book - I have to defend the man as I was friends with foreigners who knew him. He is married to a Jp woman and has a daughter - and he would be well aware she will be called "hafu" or half for the rest of her life by many Japanese despite the fact that she was born in Japan.

This is just one of the many issues Bramble was drawing attention to. Apparently he enjoys life in Japan but he is an intelligent man who is not going to tell newcomers that the image put on for newcomers rather than the complex reality that lies beneath, is the real Japan. I read the book and I wish I had read it before I went to Japan.

[craven]

I've only been here about 4 years, which makes me a relative greenhorn compared with a lot of the folks on this board. I agree with pretty much all the points made so far, especially the fact that it's very hard to make good friends if you don't speak the language. I also found that I rarely made friends unless I went out on my own instead of with other gajin.

I had kind of an odd experience around the 2 year mark, which is about when my Japanese started getting to the point where I didn't need English so much in conversation. I'd had my share of language leeches, but I also had several that seemed pretty ok with speaking English, but letting me mumble away in broken Japanese to the extent of my abilities. When I started getting a lot better at Japanese and using it a lot in common conversation though, I had something of an exodus of friends over a very short period of time, as if they were quite uncomfortable relating to me entirely in Japanese. I hadn't thought of them as leeches before (and still don't really), but it was as if I lost the "gajin curiosity" factor when I started speaking their language.

I don't have a huge number of Japanese friends now, but the ones I do have are good ones and would stick around no matter what language we spoke. That definately takes a lot of time and effort though, as it would in any country.

[Antonimus Prime]

As far as making male friends in Japan I have only made one. My former boss who is close to my age, and we have the same interests. He had studied abroad though, I would consider him "Japanese". He is also from the Tohoku region so maybe there is a difference than from people in the Kanto area.

[luckbox]

[SeasonedVet]

I was beginning to wonder if it was only me that had experienced this kind of stuff.
I am glad to hear of others' experiences.
I have had some weird ones too.
I have been left wondering what really brought about the end of the communication.
No closure.
Still wondering.

[SeasonedVet]

By the way I forgot to mention.
Girls usually seem have an easier time making friends.
Most of the females I have worked with over the years in Japan have made Female Japanese friends relatively quickly.

That is not to say that they don't have the same problems of duration as the guys do. Or the problem of who is genuine or who isn't.

But they do seem to make girl friends alot faster than guys make male friends (or female friends)

A female Japanese acquaintance of mine once asked me to help her and her friends find foreign friends, and she specified Female friends. Not Male.
I don't think that they are Not interested in guys, it's just that they want to get to know foreign Females, probably to do girls stuff and stuff.

[lanems]

All of my good Japanese friends I met during college. Especially the friends I made in America who were studying abroad. I did an intern at a company and made some close friends, but with travel and all I haven't kept really close friends in my home country or in Japan.

It's a question of mobility too, if you're moving around a lot you just can't expect to have friends like you would have say if you grew up in the same town your whole life and stayed with the same group of childhood friends.

To be able to fly halfway across the world and still be able to meet up with friends for a drink is more than I can ask for if I'm moving around every 2 or 3 years.

[nawlinsgurl]

I have two really good Japanese friends who I went to college with in the States. I think that's the sole reason we all became so close. They were dropped off in a Southern-backwater-mini city inside a countryass town-college campus to fend for themselves and basically had a hard time. There was ONE japanese restuarant owned by a korean guy and the five japanese exchanged students all worked there getting paid under the table. I liked sushi and ate at the restuarant all the time, plus took Japanese at school, met them and became great friends.

When I moved to Kanagawa one even flew over and helped me find a apartment and negotiate a contract. And when I go to Okinawa, I chill with my other friend down there. Needless to say, they both are not very traditional Japanese robot types. Both are really outspoken and decided they couldn't cut it in busy robotic style Japan after coming back from a 4-6 year stint in the States. (Plus Southern life is wayyy laid back )

Aside from them, I haven't found any REAL japanese friends here. It seems like people are intrested in using other people to learn english, be travel guides, or to take them on the military base for shopping. I met one cool half- Japanese girl who ended up just wanting me to take her to the base to "meet military guys"...I mean do I look like a dating service???!!

It seems like there's always a trade off to be friends in Japan. Like I will take you here if you show me how this works. Maybe friendships are like that but I'd like to get a drink for once and not have to explain some grammer point or have to take some base shopping to do so.

[kdynamic]

I find one possible point of misunderstanding is that, as far as my experience goes, it is normal in Japan to go a long time without contacting or seeing a friend (if you're busy or living far away or whatever), but then, when you have the opportunity, to pick right back up where you left off. I have friends who I made the first time I lived in Japan and then didn't contact hardly at all when I was back in the US for a year. Then I came back to Japan and we jumped right back into being friends. The same thing has happened with friends who got really busy with job hunting or whatever for a period of a few months. Japanese people are used to getting busy and taking a hiatus and not taking it personally. If you do take it personally and think 'oh they werent my real friends' then that's probably a misinterpretation.

[SeasonedVet]

kdynamic,
You are correct about the hiatus thing. They do do that. And you are right about them not seeing their friends for a long time. That long time can be a few months a year or many years ( as I have seen happen with some people I have worked with )
However the situation that some posters mentioned about friends evaporating or disappearing is Also true. I can attest to it. Those guys and gals who it happened to Can obviously attest to it.

They are situations where you will wonder if they were really your true friends or not And there are situations like you mentioned where the Japanese friend may just be taking one of their hiatuses.

But it's good to read everybody's opinions and experiences. from the lot we can put them together and come up with ... hmm ... something.