Job Discussion Forums

[mrtwist]

I would like to start off by saying hello to everyone on this forum. I�m not a frequent poster on message boards, so a thousand pardons if I unknowingly violate any points of etiquette with this post.

The reason I�ve taken the plunge and joined this board is that I�m desperately seeking any information I can find on moving to Tokyo. I have read both of the �FAQ about moving to Japan� threads, but I still have a number of questions that remain unanswered. If any of you reading this would be kind enough to assist me with some of them, I would be eternally grateful.

First off, let me begin with a bit of background about myself. My only prior experience in Japan has been two separate semester-long study abroad programs. My first program was in rural Aomori, and to put it bluntly, I couldn�t stand it. The majority of my ennui stemmed from the fact that my campus was located in a rural area with hardly any access to the outside world. I was so unhappy there that I decided to transfer to a school in Tokyo for my next semester, and that was the complete opposite of my experience in the countryside. While I was there I fell in love with the vibrancy and excitement of the city. I have never before felt as at ease with my surroundings as I did when I lived in Tokyo. In addition, I made a number of friends, many of whom I still keep in contact with to this day.

Another reason I would like to be in Tokyo is proximity to a good Japanese language school. My intent is to pass the ikkyu exam before I come back to America, whereupon I plan to attend grad school for a subject related to Japanese that I would rather not mention (for confidentiality�s sake). According to my Japanese sensei I am currently at a level where I should be able to pass the nikkyu with ease, so I�m figuring on staying in Japan for at least five years in order to gain a near-native like grasp on the language. Becoming more proficient in Japanese is my primary goal, but attending a language school full time would be far too expensive for me if I plan on going to grad school at some point. That�s why I want to find a job in Tokyo and take Japanese courses in my spare time.

I graduated from University a little over a year ago with a degree in Japanese. Since that time I have been trying to get a job in Tokyo, but have yet to meet with success. I was hired by Nova in the spring of this year, but due to an unforeseen complication I was unable to go with them, and will be unable to get a job with Nova in the future (again, for confidentialities� sake I prefer not to go into specifics here � let�s just say I was not fired). After this I was crestfallen and unsure where to turn. Upon a friend�s recommendation I looked into the Bridge Linguatec TEFL certification program with job placement. The first B.L. representative I talked told me the majority of their partner schools were in Tokyo. I labored under this false-impression for two months while I saved the money necessary to pay for the program. Upon saving an extra $900 or so, I called them again and was shocked to discover that I had been misled. Their resident �Japan Expert� said almost all of their partner schools were in rural areas, not Tokyo as I had previously believed. Once again my hopes had been dashed and I had no idea what to do in order to achieve my goal.

That was three months ago, and I still don�t have the first clue as to what the best way to go about moving to Tokyo would be. My primary question is just that: what do you think is my best option for moving to Tokyo? Below is a list of more specific questions I have regarding the various options I have been considering. I would be truly grateful if any of you would be kind enough to answer some of them.


1) It seems the easiest way to get to Japan is through an eikaiwa school, as they are cheaper and more secure than going to Japan alone with the intent of finding a job. However, I don�t know which eikaiwa school would be best for me. As I stated earlier, NOVA is not an option, but of the remaining eikaiwa schools, which one is my best bet for getting to Tokyo? Location is my primary concern. No matter how much better the pay, benefits, and job conditions were, I wouldn�t be happy living in a rural or suburban area.

2) I was planning on applying to Berlitz in Tokyo, but upon doing some research I�m now unsure if this is a good way to go. This business a year ago with freezing wages and the subsequent strike has me a bit concerned. Also, does Berlitz offer placement in Tokyo if you interview there, or do they then send you to another location? In general, is Berlitz a good company to work for?

3) I�ve read various complaints about the eikaiwa schools, and I�m wondering if there is any other way to find a job without going through an eikaiwa or shuushoku katsudo sites like Gaijinpot? My primary concern with going through something other than an eikaiwa is the $5000 to $8000 needed to get started in Japan that I read about in the FAQ�s. Saving that kind of money just isn�t an option for me at this time. After scanning Gaijinpot�s new job postings every day for over a year, a trend I�ve noticed with them is that almost all of their jobs require applicants to already reside in Japan. Again, the thing that is most prohibitive about this to me is the estimated cost required to find housing in Tokyo.

4) On the subject of eikaiwa schools vis a vis other jobs, what sort of jobs are out there for an American with roughly ikkyu-two level Japanese? Which of the available options would you recommend? Almost every translation job I see posted on sites like Gaijinpot requires candidates to have ikkyu-one level Japanese. I am sure this is most likely frowned upon by members of this message board, but my long-term career goal is not teaching ESL. If possible I would love to get a translation job, or any job that involved using Japanese, instead of teaching English. However, if teaching is the only option available to me, it would be nice to be able to take pride in what I do and feel like my students were really learning. Based upon everything I�ve read, it looks like this would entail teaching at a regular school rather than an eikaiwa, which seem to be quite light on any substantial pedagogy. However, as seems to be the theme here, I don�t have the first clue how to get a job like this. From what I have read it looks like getting a job in a school would require me to get more schooling in education, or take a TEFL-certification course. I don�t really have time for the former, but the later is an option I�m willing to explore.

5) One concern I have is the rule where you must leave Japan in order to get a working visa. The last thing I want to do is break any laws and I�m afraid of ending up in a position where an employer pressures me into working before I can get the proper visa. I also have no idea how one goes about getting around in a completely unfamiliar country like Korea without first knowing at least some of the language. This is a somewhat frightening prospect for me, but I�m sure I would be able to manage it somehow.

5) Yet another worry I have involves the renewal of visas. Let�s say I bite the bullet and spend a year in the countryside, all the while saving up in order to finance a move to Tokyo after my contract is up. How would I go about renewing my visa if I was in the process of looking for a job and uncertain who my new employer was going to be?

6) Are there affordable housing alternatives to paying $5000 in key money and guarantor fees? Is it possible to move in to a place that is already being rented by someone as a roomate, or is there some custom or law against that? Does being a gaijin complicate things? I do have some friends in Tokyo and it would be ideal if one of them could help me find someone who was looking for a roommate. Another housing-related question I have is about places such as Sakura House. Are apartments like this a good alternative to renting a Japanese style apartment, or are their hidden costs/pratfalls related with them? I know that it would be too inconvenient to stay at a hostel-like guest house while working, but are there any other cheap housing options available?

7) Realistically speaking, what is the absolute minimum amount of money I should save in order to move to Tokyo, both on my own or through an eikaiwa?

Are there any good Japanese language schools you can recommend in the Tokyo area that accept part-time students? My ideal would be as rigorous a course as possible given the time constraints work would place on me.

9) Something else I have thought about doing is taking out a loan in order to attend a language school in Tokyo for a semester, and then trying to find a job while I was there. Is it possible to enter Japan on a student visa and then transfer to a working visa, or is this frowned upon? Are there any potential obstacles that would make going this route difficult? I�m only willing to go in debt far enough to pay for a semester at a language school, so I would like to be able to find work immediately after the semester is over.

10) Is there anything else I�m forgetting to ask that I should know?

Thank you very much for reading this long-winded post! I hate to impose like this, but I�m getting quite desperate after a year of unsuccessfully trying to figure out how to get to Tokyo. I feel like my entire life is passing me by while I waste away in the American suburbs, and I just need someone to help point me in the right direction towards achieving my goal. If you could give me any ideas whatsoever, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you.

[Deicide]

if you have no cash then I would get some before making the move, that's what I did and thus did I go to the Asian cash machine, Korea, here you can easily save 10,000$ a year if not more and next year I am heading to Japan, Japan is for quality and Korea is for money. They will pay for your flight to Korea as well so that is sorted....here's a good web site:

http://www.geocities.com/esl_korea/TheJapanMyth.html

http://www.geocities.com/esl_korea/TaiwanvsKoreavsJapan.html

So come to Korea, save up for a year and jet over to Japan...you sound very young so wasting a year of your life saving in Korea won't be too bad...good luck

[canuck]

[mrtwist]

Thanks for the advice, but I'm really looking to find something in Japan ASAP. I've already been away from Japanese class for over a year, and I have no interest in learning another language before I master Japanese. Even being in the Japanese countryside (my worst case scenario) would be preferable to another foreign country.

Also, I'm a bit older than most recent college graduates. Without giving too much away, I'm closer to 30 than I am 25.

But like I said before, thanks for the response!

[mrtwist]

[Ai]

[canuck]

[Deicide]

[Glenski]

canuck,
You are far too optimistic about finding work here to say that it is possible in a week. Possible? Yes, but not very likely. Tell it like it is. First off, it depends on when one comes. Second, interviewing alone will take longer than that. Let's take off the rose-colored glasses.

mrtwist,
To come here and set yourself up will be expensive. Figure on US$4000-5000 for the first 2 months, which is what you must plan for, in my opinion. Get a job tomorrow and you will still have to wait 4-6 weeks before the first paycheck comes in. Some employers offer loans, and while it's nice to have that fallback plan, do you really want to be indebted to your employer for money, plus a job, plus housing? You'll have to pay back the loan in your first 2 paychecks anyway, so you'll be living on less than regular wages, too. Keep that in mind.

Quote:

1) It seems the easiest way to get to Japan is through an eikaiwa school, as they are cheaper and more secure than going to Japan alone with the intent of finding a job. However, I don�t know which eikaiwa school would be best for me. As I stated earlier, NOVA is not an option, but of the remaining eikaiwa schools, which one is my best bet for getting to Tokyo? Location is my primary concern. No matter how much better the pay, benefits, and job conditions were, I wouldn�t be happy living in a rural or suburban area.

You'd better stress an urban area very strongly because the big four eikaiwa have branches practically anywhere, and you'll be disappointed unless you get what you want. I won't tell you to suck it up and learn to live in something smaller and less glitzy than Tokyo (although I'd like to), but this is the route I would take. By the way, some of the big four won't hire people who have broken contracts with the others, so be prepared mentally for that turning down, if it happens. If you can't afford to come here and job hunt, you're stuck with about 10-12 places that recruit from overseas. Stay away from the JET programme because they post teachers primarily in rural areas (but this just reduces your percentages by another notch).

Quote:

2) I was planning on applying to Berlitz in Tokyo, but upon doing some research I�m now unsure if this is a good way to go. This business a year ago with freezing wages and the subsequent strike has me a bit concerned. Also, does Berlitz offer placement in Tokyo if you interview there, or do they then send you to another location? In general, is Berlitz a good company to work for?

It's a huge company, so of course they'll have offices in Tokyo (the largest city in Japan). Are they good? People will argue both ways on that. Teachers there formed a union to deal with issues. So, that could be good and bad.

Quote:

3) I�ve read various complaints about the eikaiwa schools, and I�m wondering if there is any other way to find a job without going through an eikaiwa or shuushoku katsudo sites like Gaijinpot? My primary concern with going through something other than an eikaiwa is the $5000 to $8000 needed to get started in Japan that I read about in the FAQ�s. Saving that kind of money just isn�t an option for me at this time. After scanning Gaijinpot�s new job postings every day for over a year, a trend I�ve noticed with them is that almost all of their jobs require applicants to already reside in Japan. Again, the thing that is most prohibitive about this to me is the estimated cost required to find housing in Tokyo.

You have a bachelor's degree and a little Japanese ability. The former is required for immigration to issue a work visa, and for most employers to consider hiring you. The latter is extraneous for both, but it will do you good even if you don't use it in the classroom. (You won't be allowed to in most situations.) As for the money, plain and simple, if you don't have US$3000-4000 to bring with you as setup money, don't come yet. Certainly plan the best time to come so you don't waste much money. March is the peak hiring season. Gaijinpot is not the only place that advertises for teaching jobs, so don't get the idea that every employer wants its applicants to reside in Japan. Conversely, look at it from their standpoint -- people who ARE here show a certain level of commitment. Anyway, look at the other ad sites.
www.ohayosensei.com is a major one (twice a month)
www.eltnews.com is updated daily
www.japantimes.com has classifieds, but also try to get the Monday paper edition, too for 2-4 pages of ads.
www.jobsinjapan.com has teaching and non-teaching jobs.
There are other places, too, some for region-specific locations.

Quote:

4) On the subject of eikaiwa schools vis a vis other jobs, what sort of jobs are out there for an American with roughly ikkyu-two level Japanese? Which of the available options would you recommend? Almost every translation job I see posted on sites like Gaijinpot requires candidates to have ikkyu-one level Japanese. I am sure this is most likely frowned upon by members of this message board, but my long-term career goal is not teaching ESL. If possible I would love to get a translation job, or any job that involved using Japanese, instead of teaching English. However, if teaching is the only option available to me, it would be nice to be able to take pride in what I do and feel like my students were really learning. Based upon everything I�ve read, it looks like this would entail teaching at a regular school rather than an eikaiwa, which seem to be quite light on any substantial pedagogy. However, as seems to be the theme here, I don�t have the first clue how to get a job like this. From what I have read it looks like getting a job in a school would require me to get more schooling in education, or take a TEFL-certification course. I don�t really have time for the former, but the later is an option I�m willing to explore.

I'll be blunt. You have a BA degree and a year of post-graduate experience. While your language ability might be good enough, you simply don't have the experience needed. You need to prove to employers here that you have a special ability or skill, and that takes time to build up. Unless you find a foreign company that is willing to send a total newbie (the Japanese term for new hire is "freshman") to Japan on his first assignment, I'd say stay home and work on building up your skill sets and experience. Go ahead and take a job with such a company, but don't expect them to send you here for a year or two. Again, look at it from their perspective.

As for teaching at a "regular" school, you need to understand the situation here. Unless you work for the JET program or a dispatch ALT agency, you are unlikely to get a job immediately in a mainstream school. They want people with at least a year or 2 of experience here, and that means even eikaiwa experience will do. No other higher credentials are often needed. You don't have time to get more credentials? Well, what are you expecting a non-teaching employer to do with your present skill set? Sorry to sound so pessimistic or harsh, but it's a fact. If you don't invest in yourself, why should an employer who can easily find people that have experience, whether from the local Japanese or local foreign population? Trust me, people teaching English here are not all accredited with linguistics backgrounds. They have a diverse set of talents, from microbiology to IT. You are competing against them here as much as you are back home.

Quote:

5) One concern I have is the rule where you must leave Japan in order to get a working visa. The last thing I want to do is break any laws and I�m afraid of ending up in a position where an employer pressures me into working before I can get the proper visa. I also have no idea how one goes about getting around in a completely unfamiliar country like Korea without first knowing at least some of the language. This is a somewhat frightening prospect for me, but I�m sure I would be able to manage it somehow.

This rule is largely no longer in effect. Come here, get hired, start the visa process, and you can stay right through to the finalization of paperwork, and as long as you have a "visa pending" stamp in your passport you can work. Besides, what you've heard about making the Korea run is not as bad as you think. When people DID have to do that, it was just for a weekend. Don't you think that a city as large as Seoul has attracted tourists before who don't speak or read Korean?

Quote:

5) Yet another worry I have involves the renewal of visas. Let�s say I bite the bullet and spend a year in the countryside, all the while saving up in order to finance a move to Tokyo after my contract is up. How would I go about renewing my visa if I was in the process of looking for a job and uncertain who my new employer was going to be?

Before your visa is up, you find another employer who is willing to sponsor your visa. Not all do, but that's as straightforward as it gets. As long as you apply for a renewal through him before your other visa is up, you're ok. Heck, you could even ask your existing employer for a renewal and ditch him after you get it. Not nice, but possible.

Quote:

6) Are there affordable housing alternatives to paying $5000 in key money and guarantor fees? Is it possible to move in to a place that is already being rented by someone as a roomate, or is there some custom or law against that? Does being a gaijin complicate things? I do have some friends in Tokyo and it would be ideal if one of them could help me find someone who was looking for a roommate. Another housing-related question I have is about places such as Sakura House. Are apartments like this a good alternative to renting a Japanese style apartment, or are their hidden costs/pratfalls related with them? I know that it would be too inconvenient to stay at a hostel-like guest house while working, but are there any other cheap housing options available?

You haven't done a search here, I can tell. I started a thread on housing that doesn't require guarantors or key money. Look for it. That is something to set yourself up initially. Eikaiwas usually have housing of their own that you move into, fully furnished with secondhand goods, and without the need for key money. Don't like it? Well, then you have to deal with key money (unless you find something from my old thread) as well as furnishing your place with everything (EVERYTHING = all appliances, curtains, bedding, kitchen utensils, etc.). Some can be had from secondhand or recycle shops and gomi stations, and little things from 100-yen shops, but I wouldn't want to do it when first moving in.

Quote:

7) Realistically speaking, what is the absolute minimum amount of money I should save in order to move to Tokyo, both on my own or through an eikaiwa?

In my opinion, even during peak season, plan on supporting yourself for 2 months to be safe. That means US$4000. If you want a breakdown as to why, send me a PM. I've written this dozens of times.

Quote:

9) Something else I have thought about doing is taking out a loan in order to attend a language school in Tokyo for a semester, and then trying to find a job while I was there. Is it possible to enter Japan on a student visa and then transfer to a working visa, or is this frowned upon? Are there any potential obstacles that would make going this route difficult? I�m only willing to go in debt far enough to pay for a semester at a language school, so I would like to be able to find work immediately after the semester is over.

Switch visas all you like. It's your privilege as long as you have the sponsor. Just realize that in order to get a student visa, nobody is going to let you in the door without knowing that you have a certain amount of funding to support yourself in the first place, so you are back at square one again with the finance issue.

Quote:

10) Is there anything else I�m forgetting to ask that I should know?

Probably. This is not something to be taken lightly. There are issues of health insurance, how to move out of your current home, how you plan to teach, how to interview, what you need for non-teaching jobs and where to find them, etc.

Good luck.
[/quote]

[kdynamic]

Why would you come to Japan as an English teacher if you want to improve your Japanese? Not a good move. There are scads of jobs to be had in Tokyo for people with degrees and Japanese ability. There are special job posting sites for such jobs (daijob, ecentral, the JAT list, etc). There are even special job fairs held in Tokyo and cities in the US (http://www.careerforum.net/event/index_e.asp). It's not like you need any real experience in anything to get a job in executive recruiting or whatever.... My question is if you really spent a year in Japan and have been trying to get back since, why do you not know about all of this already? And if you really have 2-kyu level Japanese, why are you saying things like "ikkyu-two level Japanese" that make no sense? Something smells fishy about your post....

[canuck]

[mrtwist]

Hi kdynamic,



[quote="kdynamic"]Why would you come to Japan as an English teacher if you want to improve your Japanese? Not a good move. There are scads of jobs to be had in Tokyo for people with degrees and Japanese ability. There are special job posting sites for such jobs (daijob, ecentral, the JAT list, etc). There are even special job fairs held in Tokyo and cities in the US (http://www.careerforum.net/event/index_e.asp). It's not like you need any real experience in anything to get a job in executive recruiting or whatever....[ /quote]

Thanks a lot for the list/advice!!!! This is more along the lines of what I am looking for than a teaching job. You may find this hard to believe, but in one year of asking, NOBODY has mentioned these sites to me.

[quote="kdynamic"]
My question is if you really spent a year in Japan and have been trying to get back since, why do you not know about all of this already? And if you really have 2-kyu level Japanese, why are you saying things like "ikkyu-two level Japanese" that make no sense? Something smells fishy about your post.... [ /quote]

That last part is terribly embarrassing! That was a case of me always thinking of the Japanese Proficiency Test as "the ikkyu" because that is the level I want to take. Believe me, I might look like a complete idiot based on that sentence, but that was a total brainfart on my part. I do know what the four levels of the Japanese Proficiency Test are (４級、３級、２級、１級) but for some vexing reason messed it up when writing about it in English. This also gets to part of the reason that I want to get over there ASAP - my Japanese has gotten terribly rusty in the year since I've been away from college. I'm afraid I'll lose it completely if I don't get there soon. Like I said in my initial post, my last Japanese teacher told me I should be able to pass 2級, so I'm assuming my Japanese is roughly at that level, or would be if I spent a month studying intensely (ie 4+ hours a night, 5 or more days a week). I skipped the entire second year of Japanese at my University by studying independently over the course of a summer, so I think taking a month to get my Japanese back up to where it was a year ago would be within the realm of possibility.

As for the first part, when I was in Japan previously I came over as a complete novice at the language and didn't pick up on much in terms of potential careers. For the past year I've been trying to find things online, but haven't been able to come up with much beyond eikaiwa schools/other teaching jobs. I've also asked friends in Japan and former teachers, but have always met with the same answer, "how about the JET Program?" Not exactly what I'm looking for. Basically, the reason I came here to solicit advice is because I've come up with nothing but dead ends over the past year.

This CFN career forum looks perfect for me. I'm going to check out the other sites you mentioned as well. I can't think you enough for bringing these to my attention!!!!

[mrtwist]

Glenski,

Thanks a lot for all of the detailed info!!! I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions point by point. Would it be okay for me to private message you with some follow-up questions?

[Glenski]

mr twist,
anytime.