Job Discussion Forums

[Joe C.]

[FAQ China]

[Joe C.]

[Wolf]

[Joe C.]

[chinasyndrome]

There appears to be an age-old sub-issue at play here, neither side of which is necessarily wrong but both of which have distinctly different starting points.

Teachers are not businesspeople. They deal with educational process and flow rather than continuity and survival/growth. Owners and managers, of necessity, deal with the filthy lucre issues that our more polite society brethren don't want to get their hands dirty on.

The teacher need not concern him or herself with the real-world issues of how salary is paid. It is simply expected to materialise in line with the contract clauses. Other financial issues relating to business are 'not my business' says the teacher, and quite rightly so. But this does not mean that they don't need to be addressed by someone whose business it is to deal with these items.

Then there's the issue of profit. A dirty, dirty word if ever there was one. A sound commercial return is the essence of business adventure and capital risk-taking. However, the business world can't agree on the definition of 'sound'. Neither can the teacher. Yes, the teacher earns a profit too. It's the amount you have left after tax and direct work-related expenses and is commonly called discretionary funds. Not too many teachers hand all or part of their salary back and many, rightly or wrongly, think they deserve more, often simply by dint of being in a classroom. If profit is not one of the major aims of the teacher then why are so many looking for better pay and conditions? Join a voluntary organisation if a sound commerical return on your labour is not required.

So the person hiring who is more than just a teacher doing point work for their school has a right to set down the guidelines they see fit when recruiting. If the potential applicant doesn't like those guidelines then it's simply a matter of swinging onto the next branch.

Anyone who's read any employment-related forum knows that there are more than a few unethical recruiters and schools in China and beyond. Similarly, any manager/recruiter (for want of a less loaded word) knows there are many idiots who should stay at home, where their mothers can clean up their drool and change their diapers a few times a day.

FAQ made a very good point about providing accurate information in a timely manner to interested (and pre-qualified) potential candidates. Potential candidates also have a responsibility to respond to the criteria set by the potential employer. That is axiomatic throughout the developed world when seeking a position. Why then, should it change here?

For goodness sake, the issue at hand is about including a photograph, not asking you to commit some furtive and low act or hand over your first-born child!

Why a photo is asked for is by the by. In my case, it made the candidate more 'real' to me - it added another dimension to discussions with them - end of story. Having hired a decidedly black woman this year as well as two Asian-looking westerners, the decision to ask for a photo was not in any way connected to their race or skin tone, although had that been an issue for the employing company (whom I chose to work for) then hell would freeze over before I would apologise for it. Commercial sanity and the rights of the employer would prevail.

Send the photo or move on. In the raffle that is ESL you'll never know whether you missed the worst or best job of your career over a 2x2 square that looks like you.

[Joe C.]

Just who was that masked man??

Very eloquent statement, McSyndrome. Can't argue with your logic.

[Wolf]

I was just thinking that.

I think we've hashed out something worthwhile here.

[chinasyndrome]

Thanks guys. More hash, please! In the non-marijuana-derivative sense, of course.

I think this whole issue is huge. We briefly examined one part of it in discussing photos. The idea that the commercialisation of education is somehow a BAD THING while taking advantage of the benefits it brings is a GOOD THING would make for an interesting discussion. Threads up!?

[Joe C.]

[chinasyndrome]

Maybe we could slap an X-rated warning on it or use a disclaimer that states you must be over 18 and/or an adult and/or be lucid and/or be fluent in at least one sphere of the debate and/or...

[Joe C.]

[killian]

was confucious poor? heck no. he owned stables. and when they burned down he didn't inquire about the horses. he only inquired as to if everyone was OK.

i taught in china before. as is, kinda like giving a year of your life away for nothing. oh...3000RMB a month? yes! you'll reimburse my airfare after a year? do i look like a bank?

as anyone who has been there knows, the real china is hard-core, cutthroat capitalism. wanna move your bowels? pay here. want toilet paper as well? well, that'll be extra. if backwater china wants "star" teachers let em pay somewhere close to international wages. i don't care what the local pay is. "oh, but your wages are six times that of the local farmer!" they claim. good. did that peasant finish university, fork over a thousand dollars (minimum) to get here? the chinese teachers have iron rice bowls, the promise (ha) of retirement, hong bao, the nearness of family, community...and gazillions of perks not available. my china school was selling condos to the teachers for rock bottom prices. could i buy one? of course not. so...schools plead poor and squeeze us for anything they can imagine. "oh, come teach here! we are just eight hours away from the famed calligraphy of..." in reality means "come live here alone and be a constant source of bemusement for our "frog in the well" mentality."

if backwater china wants good teachers let them pay. i'd come back to china for 15,000 RMB a month. yeah, alot of schools can afford such. do they pay it? most don't. if teacher X'll work for 3000/month,take him. if you can't find the right people, offer higher pay. if your place is boring in the middle of nowhere, pay more money. saudi is boring and in the middle of nowhere. why isn't it lacking applicants? money, juice, cash. confucious got paid. i'd kick his ass in an english teaching context. i'd probably kick his ass a putonghua teacher as well. he couldn't even get hired in modern day china. i don't want stables, heck i'd settle for scads less. how's about a 1800 US month plus paid expenses? i'll be there and soon anon.

[Joe C.]

[chinasyndrome]

killian, that was a highly articulate outburst! Come on over and visit more often. And by the way, I'm with you on that confusionist dude. Reckon I can whup his ass at making pancakes and maple syrup.