Job Discussion Forums

matko · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 43

I was dragged by a Japanese co worker last night to a bar for a late night drink. When we get there there is a sign outside stating NO FOREIGNERS ALLOWED IN THIS PLACE. I pointed this out to my co worker and he said not to worry because he was a regular and it would be no problem. After about a minute he convinced the Japanese owner to let me in. I REALLY didn't want to be there because I knew I was not welcome. However, I stayed so that my co worker would not lose face.
Anyway it was a hostess bar staffed by Philipinas that served drinks with glasses that had the American flag on them. Rolling Eyes

The sign outside was not a paper sign. It was a professionally made sign that was prominent and *official* looking.

My question is,

Is this illegal in Japan? Are foreigners allowed to be excluded from private businesses simply because they are foreign?

I asked the owner why foreigners were not allowed and she said that foreigners cause too many problems. I wanted to slap the byatch!

Anyone know?
What are your thoughts?

BTW, this is not the first time I have seen such a thing.

PAULH · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan

You bet your sweet a*** it is- there is a naturalised Japanese citizen born in the US who was refused entry to an onsen in Hokkaido and took them to court. he won his case and was awarded compensation

Businesses around Misawa US airforce airbase regularly refuse foreigners and service personnel and often those doing the refusing are Phillipine bar hostesses standing outside the establishment

Take a look at this for photos of offending businesses:

http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

yes, it is illegal. However, there are no laws to enact punishment for such things, as far as I know, despite the court case with the onsens.

If that was my friend, I would have told him later that I didn't feel comfortable in such a place, especially since they hypocritically put foreign flags in their drinks.

guest of Japan · Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan

I've only been refused entry once. It was a hostess bar. It was an interesting experience because the foreign friend I was with speaks fluent Japanese. He's passed the first grade of the proficiency exam and works as a translator. Anyway, we were a bit tipsy already and my friend went off on the doorman for about 10 minutes. It didn't work, but it was fun to see a foreigner belittle a prejudiced Japanese man in his native tongue.

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

What do Japanese people feel about this policy of "No foreigners allowed" in certain bars/businesses? Do they laugh it off? Disgusted? Not care? Embarrassed? They must all be aware of it to some degree.

Smooth Operator · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 140 Location: Japan

Of course such blatant racism is offensive, and is only amplified by the hypocrisy on display when one enters the bar. I would just like to ask: is the area close to an American military base? If so, then I am not altogether surprised by the management's recalcitrant stance. Having personally witnessed the behaviour of these young men (in Bali not Japan) I can see the reasoning behind the sign. If not, and if there is no similar reason, then it is unacceptable.

However, I have to ask why would any foreigner want to go to such a place anyway??? Save your yen and go to Boracay instead for a much better Philippine experience. Cool

Mosley · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 158

Matko, are you in the Nagoya area? And was the sign in English only? If so, that's really strange(and uncalled for) because there's no real US military presence there(and no, I'm NOT painting all GIs with a wide brush!). In 5 yrs. in Japan, the only time I ever saw anything like that was in Naha, where a bar prohibited US servicemen UNLESS they were accompanied by a Japanese who would "vouch" for them.

azarashi sushi · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Posts: 562 Location: Shinjuku

Hi Guys!

While we're on the subject ...

I'm looking for a new apartment at the moment. Yesterday I went with a Japanese friend of mine to a Real Estate agent in Nakano Sakue. We looked at the many apartments available for rent on display in the window ... We went inside and enquired about them. He told us that those weren't real apartments ... They were only a display ... AND ... In fact he didn't actually have any apartments at all.

The fact that he didn't want to deal with foreigners was OK ... But I just thought, at least be honest about it. Don't insult my intelligence aswell.

A.S.

Glenski · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Gordon · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan

Maybe you could have offered to buy some of his plastic homes and then start putting them in a shopping basket.

matko · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 43

foster · Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 485 Location: Honkers, SARS

It is pretty blatant as far as the racism goes.

Our local 280 bar put up a sign that was "TO OUR FOREIGN CUSTOMERS" about being too loud and moving about the place. They had the right to bounce us if they felt like it. A few times, even with seats available, they refused us, since they were sure that "Japanese people" would need the seats.

Very annoying.

kovac · Joined: 12 Apr 2003 Posts: 78

Whilst having only lived in Japan a short while I am a aware of the cautionary measures Japanese people take against gaijin...Japanese people do feel slightly wary to some extent around foreigners..Sometimes I myself feel ostricised, but sites such as

http://www.debito.org/roguesgallery.html

seem to have a redundant axe to grind....Japan has been a very insular country for centuries. Of course if Japanese bathhouse owners and hostess clubs have had bad experiences with gaijin they will put up such signs...Personally from my own country there still remains a bar with the phrase "No hawkers or Campbells" above the door as my clan "Campbell" was responsible for a massacre in that area as far back as the 1800's...yet I still wouldnt go there as I respect the sentiments of the owners...I mean this site and other such gripes...."I couldnt get into a hostess bar near a military base..ITS RACISM"...no, no not at all, even in the UK some Bars near military bases have signs saying "NO SQUADDIES" (Ie military personnel) as they basically run riot in any place that takes them...ok Im sure there are many people who have attempted to enter many Japanese establishments with "Japanese only" signs with "nothing but a few brews and some fun" attitude..unfortunately the few bad apples ruin the barrell....I came here with sentiments (to a certain extent) with "I am an ambassador for my country"...As the rest of the world conforms to a one world unified omniculture..I respect Japan for retaining to its cautionary cultural roots....Racism can often be blanketed as being a "colour thing", but more often than not the reality is an "attitude thing"...Anyone who isnt military and doesnt speak Japanese feel free to post if you have been refused entry to any establishments...Ive always found a polite "shtesurei shimasu..gaijin o hairite mo ii desu ka" and a warm happy attitude gets you much further than a " WHAT MAN IM A FING AMERICAN LET ME IN HERE ! THIS IS FING RACISM" attitutude (as I have witnessed passing GI's whilst entering numerous "Japanese only" bars...

kovac · Joined: 12 Apr 2003 Posts: 78

After having a bit of time looking at this guys site...

http://www.debito.org/

Ummm whats the problem bro ?

Culture is wholly differentiated throughout the world...Thats what makes it an interesting place...seems to be modelling himself as some MLK-esque figure....your people havent persecuted..at home or in Japan...why the big axe to grind ? As you say on your site you are married with children, have land, a home and a job.What else do you want ? We all struggle to find those things in life...If anything the "adminsitration" phase of WWII has perhaps forged the attitudes you attack...carried out by your own kinsmen...After all the Japanese government still holds Human rights abuse cases against the US for Systematic rape, enforced prostitution of Japanese women and widesperead looting of Japan....Little lights of hope still shine but not from you....My Japanese class in Scotland had a 92 year old student..He served during the "administration"...As he recounted, he bucked the trend by stopping many UK, NZ, Australian and US troops ; insubortinating his superiors with occupied Japanese forces from basically treating Japan as some "goody bag"..That was more than 40 years ago and still he attends class faithfully and holds his his ideals true...poor guy I asked him on initially meeting "so did you see much action ? Shoot anyone ?" in a half joking way..poor guy had to shoot some Japanese as well as courtmartialed allied troops..At the end of the day is blood shed because of your gripes...does it make the world a worse place to live in ?

Be happy with what you have and dont pick the scabs, only blood and hurt comes to the surface..not admonishing ignorance....racism is despicable...but what are you really trying to achieve ?

Nagoyaguy · Joined: 15 May 2003 Posts: 425 Location: Aichi, Japan

uhhh, Kovac. I think Debito merely wants to be treated like what he IS.......... a Japanese citizen.

What you call "cautionary cultural roots" are in fact anathema to civilized society. While it seems trivial to complain about bars and baths, the precedent is insidious. What if certain doctors offices decided to start the same practice? Supermarkets? It already happens in the real estate industry.