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The Commercialisation of Education
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chinasyndrome



Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 673
Location: In the clutches of the Red Dragon. Erm...China
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:35 am    Post subject: The Commercialisation of Education Reply with quote
This thread came about from another over in the China (Job Related) Forum, which may be worth reading in full to see how this topic developed.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?t=4953&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Whenever the issue of profit is raised in the same sentence as education, plenty of hot debate follows.

What say you? Is there are middle ground and if so, where might it be?
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AlexW



Joined: 02 Aug 2003
Posts: 17
Location: Sussex, UK
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Middle ground? I doubt it.

The commodification of education is part and parcel of the Commodification Of Everything (TM) so popular these days. Which of the seriously influential changes in the ESL industry in the last 15 years were down to anything other than packaging?

I work for an FE College in the UK. But such is its obsession with merging with every other similar institution in the area, that 20 years down the line when I'm rounding off the career with a sinecure in the former Vladivostok Institute of Tractor Maintenance, I bet I'll be getting the paychecks from the same people.

Al
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struelle



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: The Commercialisation of Education Reply with quote
Quote:
Whenever the issue of profit is raised in the same sentence as education, plenty of hot debate follows.

What say you? Is there are middle ground and if so, where might it be?


In theory there probably is middle ground, but such an issue is controversial by nature, so it arouses passions. In practice middle ground on education vs. profit is hard to find.

I tend to take sides with the education / academic perspective. Profit is secondary. What I find most disturbing with the commercialization of education isn't the money factor specificaly. But it's the high and rapid rate of change that the commercial educational paradigm is sweeping over the world, as we live in increasingly competitive times.

Steve
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denise



Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 3419
Location: finally home-ish
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I apologize in advance for my lack of eloquence, but this is an issue that pisses me off so much that I am only capable of an emotional response, not a logical/rational one.

I hate, abhor, loathe it when educational decisions are made by people with no grounding and no interest in education. I do see a clear divide between bureaucracy/businesspeople and educators. In my humble yet firm opinion, if bureaucrats do not understand education/learning/languages , they have no more right to make educational decisions than do, say,... (hmm, which occupation can I choose without offending anyone?!?!? OK, choose your own completely-unrelated-to-education occupation.)

d
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:23 am    Post subject: commodity Reply with quote
Everything is a commodity. That is where we have been going since the development of capitalsim. If in doubt go back to Charlie Marx. It is all there !
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Wolf



Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 1245
Location: Middle Earth
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: commodity Reply with quote
scot47 wrote:
Everything is a commodity. That is where we have been going since the development of capitalsim. If in doubt go back to Charlie Marx. It is all there !


I think Groucho might be more appropriate here.

Outdated philosophies that hinder second langauge aquisition is one thing. But the sadly monstrosities of, say, the Korean Hogwan system or the way that it seems some/many private schools in China and Japan are real.

I don't know - not being a DoS or a school owner or anyone who's allowed to see the books - but isn't it possible to run a private EFL school with a fair standard of education and teachers while still turning a profit? Does it really pay dividends to screw over your teachers? Is it really necessary to bend the truth or even out and out lie to your students (I held a NOVA ad for potential new students in my hands that had a lie printed on it. Not an equiviation or an exaggeration. A lie. A big one. Sadly I threw it away when I moved from that country.)

This doesn't only apply to EFL. But I'm not in the mood for adressing that right now.
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Corey



Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 112
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To Alex I would say, if the private schools didn't make a profit you wouldn't have a job. I would add most schools probably don't make as much money as you think. Remember this is the owners job as well.

There is a reason why at many of the smaller schools the owner also teaches.

It is possible to turn a profit and treat people right, but IMO it requires skills that most people don't have. Most teachers do not understand anything about finance and managers don't understand teaching.
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Joe C.



Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 993
Location: Witness Protection Program
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
denise wrote:
I apologize in advance for my lack of eloquence, but this is an issue that pisses me off so much that I am only capable of an emotional response, not a logical/rational one.

I hate, abhor, loathe it when educational decisions are made by people with no grounding and no interest in education. I do see a clear divide between bureaucracy/businesspeople and educators. In my humble yet firm opinion, if bureaucrats do not understand education/learning/languages , they have no more right to make educational decisions than do, say,... (hmm, which occupation can I choose without offending anyone?!?!? OK, choose your own completely-unrelated-to-education occupation.)

d


Then open your own school and do it your way. I guess reality bites, no? Wink
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Joe C.



Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 993
Location: Witness Protection Program
PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Corey wrote:
To Alex I would say, if the private schools didn't make a profit you wouldn't have a job. I would add most schools probably don't make as much money as you think. Remember this is the owners job as well.

There is a reason why at many of the smaller schools the owner also teaches.

It is possible to turn a profit and treat people right, but IMO it requires skills that most people don't have. Most teachers do not understand anything about finance and managers don't understand teaching.


Yup. Very accurate perceptions.

Although many times the problems are caused by teachers and / or management, sometimes the market demands to be lied to.
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