Job Discussion Forums

[Roger]

we do not need to delve into history, or histories - to me the question, the rhetorical question still is: would China have made such a public fuss if the guys in question had been Taiwanese or Americans???


That alone matters to me - and I do think it currently is the wrong people manipulating the news to their advantage.

[shmooj]

No it isn't.
But surely the reason behind this is historical isnt it Roger?

[Tong Dawei]

I'm sure there are "wrong" elements exploiting this incident for whatever they can get, as there are many shades of grey (different parties w/ different interests) associated with any political issue. Interestly (IMO), there is no mention of this story on China Daily's website. It's my feeling that most of the traffic about this is coming from the street and not SO MUCH from the government.

So which is it Roger, a question or a statement? It looks like a question so i'll answer it by stating that I do not think that China would have reacted with such a fuss if the same exercise had been carried out by anyone other than Japanese males. It is the historical context that exists between the two countries that leads me to this conclusion. History, in a figurative sense, is all around us just like the air we breathe. To ignore the air (i.e., stop breathing) while addressing your question/assertion would lead to a nonsensical response similar in lack of depth or understanding as an answer tendered without imbibing the spritits of history.

[struelle]

[Roger]

Ah so, Tong Danwei, history and brothels...
*beep*: "What nationality are you, Sir< I presume you are a foreigner, since you do not speak our local language?"
Customer: "Yes, Madam, I am a foreigner, Japanese to be exact. Now may I know what you have got to offer, and at what price?"
*beep*: "Oh, Sir, so you are Japanese? Welcome to China... basically we have to offer you the same, but it comes at a higher price. And it would do you no harm to give a lishi to my grand mother who lived through your country's occupation of Manchukuo. My grand mother will never forget how girls as young as ten were raped by Japanese soldiers that must now be as old as your grand parents, although she was not raped by any of them. But it's a national honour thing, if you understand, Sir!"

[arioch36]

It is intersting, in the western mentality (ie Roger's comments) Nazism is something evil, and holocaust only refers to the Holocaust of the Jews (uh, what happened to the Gypsies and the Polish). If a person (Arnie) made a comment 30 years ago about the remarkability of a person like Hitler rising to power, it is enough to start political wars.

In China, Hitler is often not seen as evil incarnate. One out of ten probaly would say they admire him. Japan is seen as that evil. If an unrepentant german government (and Germany has offically repented, and made many substantial gestures to show their sincerity and too teach the truth in their history books)

If an unrepentant german group of tourist game to Tel Aviv and started ripping the gold of live Israelis??? I really don't know any Asian country that likes Japan. In the height of their economic power they showed the same type of behaviour as their rape of China in their actions in the southeast. (One example, buying precious forestlands of countries with their money, totally razing the land, and then leaving).

Now the Japanese are denying responsibility for the effects of the chemical weapons they left behind in Japan. The leader of Japan visits the war memorial to some of the worst Japanese war criminals, and Koreans chop off their pinkies in protest. Good thing some Chinese did grab knifes and start hacking away at the Japanese "tourists"

What tour sites did any of these Japanese visit?

Obviously the biggest source of Johns are the Chinese themselves. But there is something sick about the Japanese attitude. What do you think the Japanese would do if several hundred Chinese went as a group to a five star hotel in Japan, and did the same things?

I would say the same thing about a group of 200 American tourists going as a group to Thailand and doing the same thing. Yes, prostitution exists everywhere, and I have made my opinions on it clear. But there is something really abhorhent about a concerted effort to do such things, escpecially the time and place.

most of the human smuggling involves Taiwan and Japanese buying young girls, by the way. (Or what do you think the Chinese government means when it says "human smuggling") . insult to injury, soon to be forgotten, but never to be forgiven.

[arioch36]

PS

It was on CCTV9 a few days ago

[Tong Dawei]

So Roger writes in another post:

[Roger]

Tong Danwei,
you had better do a tug-of-war with your Chinese girlfriend, mate - you are not strong enough for me!
What those "man Chinese' are saying about their Japanese neighbours is indoctrinated and biased nationalist rhetoric much in the same league as Nazi propaganda was in its heiyday. Ordinary Chinese have absolutely no reason to feel any antipathy against Japanese. They do so only in deference to their fascist-type overlords from that cultish party. Granted some have justified and legitimate complaints, as for example a sizeable number of Nanjingers may have - but I can't see how one billion people can hate (and they do hate) Japanese simply because of history. If they do so it's pathetic, and it reminds me of my French neighbours of ten years that had a similar hatred for Germans. Not to mention the Israelis and their hatred of Germany, equally for historic reasons. I am sorry but this is nothing to do with the human factor, it is power play, abuse of power to the detriment of other nations.
I can never take any pride from being national of any particular country because that is nothing but an accident. ANd likewise, what happened to my ancestors does not give me any right to hate others, or even to exact a price for it.

And as for prostitution, I am sorry, but the guy with an ambivalent attitude is you, not me. I do not associate prostitution with sin or anything criminal. It is a business, full stop. I know about its problematic sides, of course, and I am not telling people to take advantage of those girls.
But the CHinese rulers have no scruples in peddling their human servants to businesspeople from abroad and from China as slaves. How many companies have set up shop purely because of the greedy offers made to them of "cheap labour force"? Have you ever been to a 49% Japanese-owned copier facotry in a Guangdong rural township? BLue-collars toiling 9 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 450 RMB a month, sleeping in dorms that hold up to 25 men!
Who is to blame for this exploitation?
To tell you my opinion: THE CHINESE!

[Tong Dawei]

The whole reason I responded to your (roger) condescension in the first place is because you seemingly delight in making egregious statements here and there (other threads included), and, as is the case with your aforementioned post, false statements. I feel that it is condescending for a westerner to nonchalantly posit your rhetorical question in the face of so much Asian antipathy, so I said so. Is the vehemence you portrayed initially and then throughout your successive posts the result of some whim or fancy, or quite possibly perhaps, an instilled sense of superiority on your part? You seem to feel as though since you are so learned and experienced that somehow you are superior and therefore cannot be confined within the parameters intended for lesser folk of thoughtful and tactful discourse on these boards. Your last post is filled with examples of instances where you are seemingly blinded by your own intellect to this effect and therefore feel unconstrained by norms of civil debate, and cannot appreciate how childish you make yourself appear. I expect more from a person of your intellectual caliber.

I have no Chinese girl friend. You cannot discount my assertions here as being held hostage by anyone with your connotation to the contrary. If I did have a Chinese girl friend, your intended statement is even more blaringly egotistical and filled with mind numbing naivet� in that you automatically assume you are superior. This is sickening and pretty much sums it up what I am pointing out in your character.

However, you go on...

I have never made my feelings known on any forum about my attitudes towards prostitution and yet you feel free to interject a LIE about my notions on the topic into your egotistical blustering in an attempt to buttress your defense.

Finally, My original assertion was in fact constrained to only the thoughts and feelings of those who had family members touched by Japanese occupation and whose festering wounds have been naturally passed down to the next generations due to no means of closure ever having been taken into effect. I'm not talking about all of China, as I have repeatedly made clear and which you simply won't acknowledge.

I am not interested in watching you chase your tail on this issue any more as i have made my point clearly and concisely. Henceforth, unless you have constructive dialogue to offer on this subject, I am through with attending to any of your further posts herein. In other words, go ahead and get the last word in as far as i am concerned.

[arioch36]

You don't know why should all Chinese people be upset at what Japan did?

Please.

So I guess I'm from New York, and I shouldn't feel California is part of America? I wouldn't feel like a country invading and raping and torutring Californian people is doing it to America?

Huh???


Ridiculous