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wordweaver_66
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Chicago, IL, US
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 Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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Hello,
Japan or Korea? I�m interested in teaching English abroad and have read several posts comparing and contrasting the pros and cons of each country, and I�m curious about what others with experience might have to say regarding those two countries and my particular circumstances.
I�m a 27 year old American male who just recently earned my Masters degree in English/Writing. I don�t have any sort of teaching certification, but I do have experience teaching children in after school English/Drama programs and I�ve given a couple lectures and spoken on a few panels at college level English/Writing conferences. I have a few bits of fiction published and my essays won a few awards at school (and, if I dig around�I�m sure I can scrounge up a gold star from a particularly fantastic piece of macaroni art from Kindergarten).
Money isn�t supremely important�except for being able to pay my monthly student debt. I�d need to be able to save roughly $1,000 USD a month to do that. Other than that, I don�t mind living on the cheap side to do it. If I weren�t considering any other factors, Japan is the country I�d rather visit (and I have a friend there�so there�d be at least one person I already know).
Given my circumstances, which country would suit me best? Where can I take the most advantage of my Masters degree? Can I get a university job, with my Masters, right away or is that something that comes down the line?
thanks in advance,
Joshua |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I doubt you will get a job in a university in Japan, but your chances might be good for Korea. Many people can work in Korean universities with BAs, as many are glorified language schools anyways. Your lack of EFL teaching experience will be a problem, but your MA will help in Korea. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Gordon about university work in Japan. It will take some experience teaching here, plus publications, plus some fluency in the language. You will need less of the above if you can finagle a PT job at a uni, but PT work doesn't sponsor a work visa.
So, you will have to look at other teaching jobs, and they are pretty much limited to JET Programme, conversation schools (eikaiwa), or the horrid ALT work through dispatch agencies. JET pays the most, and the hours are more conducive to finding private lessons at night, which would boost your income.
On average, plan on finding a job that pays 250,000 yen/month, and spending half of that on basic necessities (shelter, utilities, food, phone). What you do with the remaining 125,000 each month is up to you, but it will be tight if you have to pay off US$1000 each month. Very tight. Search for a thread I started called "cheapskates" just to see various ways to save while you live here. You are probably going to need the info. |
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Like a Rolling Stone
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 872
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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| wordweaver_66 wrote: |
I have a few bits of fiction published and my essays won a few awards at school (and, if I dig around�I�m sure I can scrounge up a gold star from a particularly fantastic piece of macaroni art from Kindergarten).
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Great!  |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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| wordweaver_66 wrote: |
I�m a 27 year old American male who just recently earned my Masters degree in English/Writing. I don�t have any sort of teaching certification, but I do have experience teaching children in after school English/Drama programs ...Where can I take the most advantage of my Masters degree? Can I get a university job, with my Masters, right away or is that something that comes down the line?
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I doubt any university would employ you with a Masters that is unrelated to English language teaching or Applied Linguistics. Also you have no teaching certification or language teaching experience.
Your MA is good to have but is pretty irrelavent as far as work in Japan goes. Best bet is to get a job with JET or a private language school, although you may have a slight possibility at an international school, although even there your lack of teaching qualifications will be a big problem.
I mean I have an Applied Linguistics MA but I wouldn't be able to get a job as a lawyer in Spain on the back of it! |
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Smooth Operator
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: Re: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
| wordweaver_66 wrote: |
I’m a 27 year old American male who just recently earned my Masters degree in English/Writing. I don’t have any sort of teaching certification, but I do have experience teaching children in after school English/Drama programs ...Where can I take the most advantage of my Masters degree? Can I get a university job, with my Masters, right away or is that something that comes down the line?
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I doubt any university would employ you with a Masters that is unrelated to English language teaching or Applied Linguistics. Also you have no teaching certification or language teaching experience.
Your MA is good to have but is pretty irrelavent as far as work in Japan goes. Best bet is to get a job with JET or a private language school, although you may have a slight possibility at an international school, although even there your lack of teaching qualifications will be a big problem.
I mean I have an Applied Linguistics MA but I wouldn't be able to get a job as a lawyer in Spain on the back of it! |
Just for the record, that last advice is wrong. I don't have an Applied Linguistics MA and I'm on 'tenure track' in Japan. The same is true for one of my colleagues. Also, at the same uni there is another guy on full tenure with an English Lit. MA. Experience and Japanese ability often count for more than the exact colour of your MA, althought it depends on the institution.
Anyway, to answer your question, Korea is a better option for you and the amount you can save is not much less than working at a uni in Japan. |
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johanne
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| you may have a slight possibility at an international school, although even there your lack of teaching qualifications will be a big problem. |
Actually without a teaching cerificate you have virutally no chance of a job at an international school (not sure if you even want one, but wanted to clear that up.) For any reputable international school a teaching certificate is an absolute must. An MA may get you a slightly higher salary, but the certificate gets you the job. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:05 am Post subject: Re: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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| Smooth Operator wrote: |
Just for the record, that last advice is wrong. I don't have an Applied Linguistics MA and I'm on 'tenure track' in Japan. The same is true for one of my colleagues. Also, at the same uni there is another guy on full tenure with an English Lit. MA. Experience and Japanese ability often count for more than the exact colour of your MA, althought it depends on the institution. |
I agree 100% with the above.
What job seekers need to keep in mind is the wide variety of university positions in this country. You have the glorified eikaiwa positions where any Masters-toting warm body will do. You have the so-called "real" EFL positions which want an MA/PhD Tesol/Applied Linguistics and multiple years of teaching experience. And you have the much rarer--but prized--specialist positions, usually found just in the sciences, but sometimes in literature, writing, poli science, etc. The competition for these last positions is brutal--you compete with both Japanese and foreign applicants--but the jobs do exist and foreigners can get them. (Extensive publications, teaching experience, advanced Japanese language ability, and at least the Masters are necessary.)
The OP is eligible for the first type of positions, though thanks to dispatch companies like Westgate, they are few and far between now. Moreover, they can be some of the more frustrating positions around--unless being ostracized in your own department (e.g., many schools won't allow these faculty to attend meetings) and/or teaching "English conversation" to 40-70 beginners (one class) is your thing. Hence, you'd do better to build up your qualifications and bank account while in Korea and go for the better positions later.
Good luck! |
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Chris21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:30 am Post subject: |
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There are some Japanese universities that will hire you with no Japan-experience. In fact, some universities prefer to hire their instructors from outside the country and bring them over. Also, an MA in English Composition is not the best MA to have, but you can find full-time work here. I have known a few teachers that were hired at universities with a non-TESOL MA (and one of them had the same MA as you).
I agree with most of the other posters in that your chances in Korea are much better, but that's not to say that Japan is impossible. You just need to know where to look. Try this website... http://www.vv-vv.com/tesol. Kansai GaiDai might hire you - they do a lot of overseas hiring and occasionally hire non-TESOL MAs. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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| Smooth Operator wrote: |
Just for the record, that last advice is wrong. I don't have an Applied Linguistics MA and I'm on 'tenure track' in Japan. The same is true for one of my colleagues. Also, at the same uni there is another guy on full tenure with an English Lit. MA. Experience and Japanese ability often count for more than the exact colour of your MA, althought it depends on the institution. |
A tenure track for what? What are you teaching? If you're telling me that you're being given tenure as an EFL/ESOL specialist and have no qualifications in this area then that is quite shocking.
How would you have the first clue of what to do? How could you answer a students questions on lexis, morphology, syntax, phonetics or take into consideration sociolinguistic or psycholinguistic points of view or research ethnographic data or effectively practice discourse analysis & pragmatics, or apply effective classroom methodology with a culturally sensitive approach, or in fact do any of the things that should be required of a university based applied linguistics/TEFL lecturer/professor anywhere in the world?
Or is it just an eikaiwa conversation class? If you're teaching English Lit and can speak Japanese then that's fair enough, but if I discovered my Applied Linguistics professor had an MA in an unrelated subject but had once been an untrained 'native speaker' on the JET program or at an eikaiwa I think I'd ask for my money back after reporting them to an ethics commission. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| A tenure track for what? What are you teaching? If you're telling me that you're being given tenure as an EFL/ESOL specialist and have no qualifications in this area then that is quite shocking. |
For what it's worth, I just got hired at a university with a 3-year contract plan renewable until retirement. That's about as close to tenured as I can give you. My degree? Master's in microbiology. As taikibansei wrote, however, I am one of the lucky ones who got in because the university is specialized in science (there is no official English department or any liberal arts majors), and they specifically requested a person with a master's in science (with English teaching experience in Japan, of course).
Contrary to what taikibansei wrote, there was very little competition for the job, perhaps because of its location.
What do I teach?
Oral communication classes, technical writing, a reading and listening course (eyes rolling in sarcasm, GREAT combination), TOEIC prep course, low level general English courses, and debate in international studies. There are more courses that I could potentially teach, but this is just my first year. The uni has only one other FT foreign teacher, and he teaches a few content courses in English, no grammar or related such courses like me. There are 3 PT teachers who teach courses like me. |
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Smooth Operator
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
| Smooth Operator wrote: |
Just for the record, that last advice is wrong. I don't have an Applied Linguistics MA and I'm on 'tenure track' in Japan. The same is true for one of my colleagues. Also, at the same uni there is another guy on full tenure with an English Lit. MA. Experience and Japanese ability often count for more than the exact colour of your MA, althought it depends on the institution. |
A tenure track for what? What are you teaching? If you're telling me that you're being given tenure as an EFL/ESOL specialist and have no qualifications in this area then that is quite shocking.
How would you have the first clue of what to do? How could you answer a students questions on lexis, morphology, syntax, phonetics or take into consideration sociolinguistic or psycholinguistic points of view or research ethnographic data or effectively practice discourse analysis & pragmatics, or apply effective classroom methodology with a culturally sensitive approach, or in fact do any of the things that should be required of a university based applied linguistics/TEFL lecturer/professor anywhere in the world?
Or is it just an eikaiwa conversation class? If you're teaching English Lit and can speak Japanese then that's fair enough, but if I discovered my Applied Linguistics professor had an MA in an unrelated subject but had once been an untrained 'native speaker' on the JET program or at an eikaiwa I think I'd ask for my money back after reporting them to an ethics commission. |
Funny post. Be honest with yourself, does one really need an Applied Linguistics MA to TEACH ESL? Of course not, but many places ask for it as a sign of academic diligence. As for answering questions on lexis, morphology, syntax, phonetics etc, have you worked in a Japanese university? Ask most uni teachers in Japan with this qualification if they are an 'Applied Linguistics lecturer' and many will say they mostly teach English conversation.
Suffice to say, I teach content and essay writing where my MA has helped a lot.
Last edited by Smooth Operator on Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
As taikibansei wrote, however, I am one of the lucky ones who got in because the university is specialized in science (there is no official English department or any liberal arts majors), and they specifically requested a person with a master's in science (with English teaching experience in Japan, of course).
Contrary to what taikibansei wrote, there was very little competition for the job, perhaps because of its location.
What do I teach?
Oral communication classes, technical writing, a reading and listening course (eyes rolling in sarcasm, GREAT combination), TOEIC prep course, low level general English courses, and debate in international studies. |
The bolded areas above explain the lack of competition--i.e., besides the location, they also wanted someone local with at least a master's in science who was both very experienced in, and willing to teach exclusively, EFL courses. Sounds like the perfect match for you...but not a good match for 99% of the people here in Japan.
By "specialist positions," I was referring to, say, English literature positions where the MA/PhD, in addition to general English duties, also teaches upper division/graduate courses in the subject area. These courses may be taught in Japanese, though with the right pacing, language support outside of class, and careful choice of reading materials, they can be taught in English as well. (As these upper division courses typically have but 5-10 students--often both motivated and of comparatively high level--it's actually easier than it sounds.)
These latter seminar courses typically get taught only by Japanese faculty--in Japanese--while the foreign teachers get stuck with the ippan kyouiku classes with 40-70 students. However, with a bit of luck, foreigners can get these other positions as well...which was my point. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 826
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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| Smooth Operator wrote: |
Funny post. Be honest with yourself, does one really need an Applied Linguistics MA to TEACH ESL? Of course not, but many places ask for it as a sign of academic diligence. |
The very question shows a glaring lack of knowledge on the subject. Not only should one have a relevant MA but one should also have a professional teaching certificate, either an Med, PGCE or at the very least a DELTA.
ESL is as vast and complex a subject as anything else and if someone is teaching at the university level then they absolutely 100% should be qualified to do so. Students shouldn't be exposed to untrained teachers/lecturers, it just makes a mockery of the university in question.
It's not a question of academic diligence, it's a question of actually being knowledgable in your specialisation. I presume tenured professors receive research funding? What the hell are they going to research if they have no knowledge of the subject they're teaching?
You could ask does one need a law degree to be a lawyer? Does one need to study medicine to be a doctor? Er...yes. I mean I'm sure you can 'do it' without anything other than the Bumper Book of (insert specialisation), but you wouldn't have a clue what you were actually doing.
In what other profession would a lack of relevant knowledge and experience be defended as acceptable? |
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tokyobound
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:45 am Post subject: Re: Korea and Japan and a Masters Degree |
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| womblingfree wrote: |
| Smooth Operator wrote: |
Funny post. Be honest with yourself, does one really need an Applied Linguistics MA to TEACH ESL? Of course not, but many places ask for it as a sign of academic diligence. |
In what other profession would a lack of relevant knowledge and experience be defended as acceptable? |
Look, I don't really know the situation and what is required to be a university teacher for ESL so forgive me if I say something wrong but:
Wouldn't the difference with trying to be lawyer without a law degree and trying to be a doctor without a relevant degree (which were the examples you used) be that you are learning something that you have no prior knowledge to compared to one that you have a great deal of knowledge about already?
I mean, we can all speak english, we've been learning it since we were young, meaning we are teaching something we have a complete knowledge and understanding of.
If you are going to compare it to other occupations wouldn't you say a scientist who has no teaching experience could still teach science with only a small amount of teaching qualifications if they knew what they were talking about?
I understand that you still need to know methods of teaching, understanding the formal ways of presenting information and be able to answer most questions students throw at you, but; Wouldn't some teaching experience prior to the University job for a few years, some good quality academic backgrounds, and guidelines and handbooks from the Uni on how they wanted it taught be enough to be able to teach students?
Again I'm probably wrong. However, I thought your example of trying to be a lawyer without doing law wasn't relevant. Every person who has grown up speaking english already have a knowledge about their subject even before trying to teach it and study it as a teaching course. |
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