Job Discussion Forums

[basiltherat]

While i realize that many of us are constrained by employers as to what we teach our students / trainees e.g. textbooks, levels etc, what do you think is the deciding factor in how we go about doing our jobs ? Do we teach them what we think or know they need or do we just give them what they want ?
To highlight, I have a trainee here who is obsessed with having conversation lessons twice a week. He says he doesn't want any grammar related tasks; simply dialogue and free discussion. I have provided what he wants and he seems happy with his training. However, I have this strong feeling that without any focus on grammar, his english is barely going to improve however much conversation time he has with me. I try to go over any obvious grammar / structural problems that he repeatedly suffers from but he just switchess off.
I have explained the issue here but just says; "more conversation, please !"
Nuts !!!
basil

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

^ Hi basiltherat


The trick is teaching him grammar without him knowing it.

I do this by focussing on one particular tense or aspect,

& then model a Q&A style conversation based on that.


example: Present Perfect


Put the basics on the board:

have / has + past participle


and briefly explain how & when we use it in conversation:

a) when an action is finished - but the time is not finished
b) when we don't say the time or the time isn't important
c) to describe a past action with a result in the present



Explain briefly since and for:


since 2000 (for a point in time)
for 6 years (for a period of time)


I then give the student a decent list of irregular verbs,

because they often don't know the past participles.


We then jump right in with the Q&A:


Put a model question on the board:


Have you ever VERB ( OBJECT ) ?


Have you ever stolen anything?
Have you ever eaten a Big Mac?
Have you ever been to Moscow?
Have you read Tolstoy's War & Peace?
Have you ever slept with a foreigner?
How long have you studied English?
How long have you worked at XZY?
How long have you lived in Almaty?


etc, etc, etc ...


Explain that his answer might need to be in the past simple

if he wants to go into detail about a specific event

that happened at a specific time in the past.


No problem if he has that list of irregular verbs!


Take turns having him ask and answer.

You can go on & on in this fashion

until the cows come home.


He gets the conversation he wants

& you teach the grammar he needs.


Next lesson, change to passive voice

and repeat the same basic outline.


Don't dwell on the grammar too much;

just present the basic structure -

& jump right into chat mode.


i.e., If it's a one hour class,

keep the grammar explanation

to 15 minutes or less --- if possible.

Most students will accept a 15/45 split.



Hope that helps?







Thailand teaching and travel resources available here :::: The Master Index Thailand ::::

[thrifty]

[dmb]

Sill having problems with the quote function Thrifty

[gaijinalways]

Kent K.,

This still seems like an artificially imposed conversation with a grammar purpose. I would suggest not even prefacing with an explantion about the tense, just insert it into the conversation if needed, quietly correcting the student if he misuses the tense/structure/whatever and if need be give some short examples on the board. For someone who deosn't want explicit grammar instruction, 1/4 of the lesson spent on grammar is probably too much (actually for me as a teache, it's probably too much). More often I try to give examples and let the student try and figure out the rule.

[TheLongWayHome]

What they want: English on a plate, preferably spoon-fed.
What they need: Motivation, an understanding of their first language and someone to make them work for it.

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hi thrifty !

[guangho]

My students are all prepping to enter BA or BS programs in an English-speaking environment so every class includes a dozen or so mentions of "when you will be studying (BA/BS related topics) next trimester, you will need to know...." It works well.

[tedkarma]

For motivational purposes, you do really need to focus on what your student wants. But, if you dig a bit deeper into why they want what they want - you can often get to what they need (if they are not one and the same). You can often help your students reconcile to the two issues and find a happy medium.

Frankly, they are the customer and if you don't deliver what the customer says they are paying for - they will soon quit paying for it.

[gaijinalways]

Very true, at many levels it comes to who is paying. Even at the universities, they are often paying to pass.

[coffeedrinker]

I agree with Tedkarma. I think it makes sense to explain to a student your insight as a teacher if what they want doesn't seem to be what they need and to be ready with what they need if they find out that what they've requested isn't it. But, aside from the "they are paying" angle, they are adults and are entitled to decide what they'd like to do.

Sometimes students will give a teacher quite a bit of leeway on how to acheive what they'd like to achieve, and in that case of course - do what they need.

Whereas with a private student I'd feel more free to do what they want (or to decline to teach them if I really felt it was unreasonable), when you are teaching for a school or employer it can be more complicated. I'd at least make sure that your DoS or director is on the same page - aware that the client only wants conversation but you feel he needs grammar work - so there aren't any big surprises down the road.

[Stephen Jones]

Just do delayed feedback for part of the conversation and explain the grammar rule and practice it in the feedback.

If he doesn't want feedback, tnen insist on having it for five minutes of the conversation.

Your student has got to see the relevance of the grammar. If he doesn't care, then that's that.

[guangho]

I have a couple of writing classes. Do you have any recommendations on how to motivate students and put some excitement into what is essentially a solitary activity?

[Deconstructor]

I like this student who wants nothing but conversation because in language learning there is only one REAL class: conversation. After all, that's what language is. All the other classes are capitalist designs to make money. I could learn any language just by buying a few books and putting myself in an environment where I can hear it. After that all I need is someone to practice the language with. What I don't need is someone who calls himself a teacher and thinks I need him/her for answers.

I REPEAT! ALL LANGUAGE CLASSES ARE SCAMS SAVE ONE: CONVERSATION!

[basiltherat]