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| Is English Teacher X right about teaching? |
| Yes, he's always right |
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53% |
[ 14 ] |
| No, he's a stupid drunkard |
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46% |
[ 12 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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 Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
| Not seeking to offend, but a huge objection I have to EF is that they pay bottom dollar (while charging top dollar), and this drags down the market for career professionals (of course, the teachers acquiesce to this state of affairs). If you EF guys would unionize and demand better pay (not that that is necessarily the best option, but there must be something better than working for minimum wage in a foreign country)... If nothing else, it must be possible to make more money by freelancing. (Trying to be constructive, not critical here) |
Aren't all free-market businesses like this? Doesn't Microsoft have lowly paid workers? (I know they do because I used to work there!)
I'm not sure about other EF schools, but I make a decent salary of around $1500/month (definitely comfortable here in Vlad), and have time for a few private students. I usually make about $2000-2300/month (with side work--just to give you an idea), and the average (reported) local salary is around $400; so I think I'm doing all right. My contract also includes airfare, visa support, a decent workload, etc. I've worked in a few places in my time, and have definitely run into worse situations for native teachers (as far as compensation is concerned).
Russian teachers, on the other hand, might want to unionize, but are afraid of losing their jobs (which are hard to come by here). It's easy to say that they should organize and "stand up to the man", but they have families to feed and rent to pay! |
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rusmeister
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 867
Location: Russia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:06 am Post subject: |
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I don't seriously believe that unionizing can work over here. I'm aware of the general circumstances under which both Russians and expats work here.
As to my scepticism, I have seen posters here before sell their McSchool, and exaggerate what the school offers to teachers (particularly those that are not DOS). Nothing personal, but last time I checked - a couple of years ago, EF was offering $600-$1,000 contracts, in Moscow. With a full-blown K-12 US teaching cert, I told 'em to take a hike.
Lowly-paid workers happen to agree to the conditions they work under. You are right; that IS free-market in action. |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| rusmeister wrote: |
I don't seriously believe that unionizing can work over here. I'm aware of the general circumstances under which both Russians and expats work here.
As to my scepticism, I have seen posters here before sell their McSchool, and exaggerate what the school offers to teachers (particularly those that are not DOS). Nothing personal, but last time I checked - a couple of years ago, EF was offering $600-$1,000 contracts, in Moscow. With a full-blown K-12 US teaching cert, I told 'em to take a hike.
Lowly-paid workers happen to agree to the conditions they work under. You are right; that IS free-market in action. |
I'm not selling anything. I was simply telling you what I earn. I know nothing about the salary standards of EF schools in Moscow ca. 2004. If you don't want to work at a McSchool, don't. I was just saying that mine isn't as bad as all that, and I make a liveable salary. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Only morons think that in order to learn another language, they must attend some boring class with an idiotic text (and they are $700 a dozen) and a teacher who's not quite on the ball. |
I agree that there are people who are trying to be professionals and do their best but I think one must really consider, what can a teacher really do in 50 minutes. Can a good teacher make children pay attention even thought most children pay attention for 5 minutes? Can a good teacher make a dumb student learn the material? Can a teacher make the students put in the time to review the material? Can a teacher get Korean students to stop spending pointless hours doing grammar exercises? |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Only morons think that in order to learn another language, they must attend some boring class with an idiotic text (and they are $700 a dozen) and a teacher who's not quite on the ball. |
I agree that there are people who are trying to be professionals and do their best but I think one must really consider, what can a teacher really do in 50 minutes. Can a good teacher make children pay attention even thought most children pay attention for 5 minutes? Can a good teacher make a dumb student learn the material? Can a teacher make the students put in the time to review the material? Can a teacher get Korean students to stop spending pointless hours doing grammar exercises? |
The answer to your questions is maybe. It is not easy dealing with kids, but it is worth while trying. Whenever I'm teaching children I take my job much more seriously because I can make a positive difference in their lives. Children are wonderful learners if you can speak their language. So that's what I do: I learn their language while I teach them mine, or when I teach English as a first language in a local high school. It is the same principle.
The answer to your questions concerning adults, absolutely NO!! But of course, I don't give a damn about adult students. I walk into the classroom, I do my job and go home. They want to learn, fine; they don't want to learn, even better. If I cared any less about adult students, I would have to be dead. I have always believed that adult language learners are the dumbest group of humans on earth. They are not only too stupid to learn another language, they are also retarded enough not to be able to take good advice as to how to learn a foreign language.
They do know how to do one thing well though: tell the teacher what the best method of teaching is. So they don't what to learn. Fine. I have killed countless hours creating the illusion that they are actually learning when in fact, they were regressing. How, you might ask? I give them the Azar grammar book, sit back, close my eyes and go somewhere warm.
Last edited by Deconstructor on Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fishy
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 138
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Deconstructor"]
| JZer wrote: |
The answer to your questions concerning adult, absolutely NO!! But of course, I don't give a damn about adult students. I walk into the classroom, I do my job and go home. The want to learn, fine; they don't want to learn, even better. If I cared any less about adult students, I would have to be dead. I have always believed that adult language learners are the dumbest group of humans on earth. They are not only too stupid to learn another language, they are also retarded enough not to be able to take good advice as to how to learn a foreign language.
They do know how to do one thing well though: tell the teacher what the best method of teaching is. So they don't what to learn. Fine. I have killed countless hours creating the illusion that they are actually learning when in fact, they were regressing. How, you might ask? I give them the Azar grammar book, sit back, close my eyes and go somewhere warm. |
Dumbest teacher on earth? |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 775
Location: Montreal
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Fishy wrote: |
| Dumbest teacher on earth? |
Wa I say now!! Them are fighten' words! I'm sure you're one of them selfless, I-cry-for-you-when-you-don't-understand-the-simple-present kinda teacher, the one who endlessly prepares and endlessly stumbles in class. I wish you good luck. Teachers like you tend to need a lot of it. Langauage learners need teachers like you more than teachers like me anyways. You guys are made for one another. Blind leading the blind. |
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happy_me
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 174
Location: In the neighborhood of nirvana
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Why do schools pay so low?
Why do teachers work for so little?
Why do school owners make so much?
Why do��
We are all where we want to be, doing what we want to do, or we would be doing something else. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Small tangent. (Cause I don't wanna get into the fight about who's the dumbest teacher.)
But I noticed
| Quote: |
| Can a good teacher make children pay attention even thought most children pay attention for 5 minutes? |
When do children only pay attention for five minutes? Try this experiment- Give a six-year-old a Nintendo.
Children are capable of an amazing attention span, when dealing with something that truly captures their attention.
A good teacher of children knows this, and knows how to use it.
Also, what's wrong with a five minute learning experience? At the school where I teach four-year-olds, I try to think of every one hour class as about 8 to 12 different activities. Different activities, practicing and reinforcing the same learning goals. What's wrong with that?
Best,
Justin |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Give a six-year-old a Nintendo. |
Even though a Nintendo will keep them entertained I am sure they will hit pause and sometimes are not paying attention. Does the Nintendo game go on for 50 minutes non-stop. Useually you die and have a pause until a new game starts. Also watch and see how many times the students pause the game a walk around.
I think there is actually scientific research that says even an adult only pays attention for 15 minutes at a time.
Basicly I agree somewhat with what you said. You made a good point when you said that you look at the lesson as 8-12 different activities. Despite that I still believe that children have a very short attention spand. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Different activities, practicing and reinforcing the same learning goals. What's wrong with that? |
So can you give me some ideas in regards to what activites are fun for learning reading. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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You're right, of course, that even with a Nintendo, the attention spans of children vary. I was just jumping on the idea that it was generally so low as to inhibit learning. (I've seen the little buggers so engrossed in things that they forget about their bodily functions, and wet themselves.) One of the biggest factors in how long they pay attention is how interesting they find something to be. (This is true for adults too, obviously.)
I've heard a lot of teachers complain that kids "won't pay attention," and when I get into the class to observe, I see: Boring worksheets, materials not really appropriate for the level (developmental or linguistic), arts and crafts activities aimed at much younger children, and activities that go on for far too long. No wonder they won't pay attention. I wouldn't either.
On the other hand, I've seen classes where students of the same age miraculously "do pay attention," and do involved, intensive projects which demand LONG periods of focus, sometimes over days or weeks.
It isn't because some groups of 20 randomly happen to have longer attention spans than other groups of 20. (Statistically unlikely, wouldn't you agree?) It's because teachers have planned in an effective way aimed at keeping them involved in learning.
So:
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| So can you give me some ideas in regards to what activites are fun for learning reading. |
I'll try. Depends a lot on level, age, first language literacy, and first language alphabet, though. and if I remember, you're in Korea, where I have no experience, but...
Literacy level. (Pre- literate children, probably age 4 to 8, depending on culture, education, and other stuff I can't remember.)
Alphabet games:
Form teams of three. Teacher says a letter, each team tries to form the letter, using their bodies lying on the floor. Keep score.
Letter sound matching. students are given a bunch of objects, or pictures of them, whose names they already know. THey have to put the objects in categories, matching them with the letters they start with.
Alphabet twister. Make a grid on the floor with your target letters for the week. (Can repeat letters in different colors, to get a grid of about 4 by 4) Make a spinner, or just call out letters (and colors) as your heart desires. Can be played in groups of four or so. (If you have large classes, have them make the grids and spinners, for heaven's sake.)
Spelling activities (When they already know some words, and most of the letters that make them up)
Word jumbles
crossword puzzles (picture clues?)
Hopscotch (They have to hop on the letters to spell the words.)
By the way, all of the spelling ideas work best when they aren't worksheets. Be creative. Be kinesthetic. Write on the walls. Make cards with letters for them to put in order.
Holistic reading activities for new readers:
Read to them, for pete's sake! Dr Seus and Shel silverstein are both great. Use picture stories to convey meaning.
Get them to act out stories you've read.
Use the OHP to put storybook pages on the board, so they can all see how you're following the words across the page. (Learning directionality is way important. Point. and the pictures are good.)
Get karaoke DVDs- The ones where the words go red as you're supposed to sing them. Read as you all sing.
These are just a few- How old are your kids? If they're old enough to read, and then act out, simple dramas, then the fun is really about to start.
If they read well enough for treasure hunts, where they have to read one clue to find the next clue, etc, then you're in for a treat. (The last time I taught nine-year-olds in groups, in Spain, we spent a whole semester, one clue a day, hunting the elephant I had hidden in the classroom.)
Recipes are fun, motivational basic level reading, too. Especially if you get to make the cookies!
Good luck with the little devils!
Justin |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Spelling activities (When they already know some words, and most of the letters that make them up)
Word jumbles
crossword puzzles (picture clues?)
Hopscotch (They have to hop on the letters to spell the words.)
By the way, all of the spelling ideas work best when they aren't worksheets. Be creative. Be kinesthetic. Write on the walls. Make cards with letters for them to put in order. |
Thanks for the advice. I also like to use the spelling racing game. I say and word and see which team can spell it the quickest. As for reading, I agree that acting out the story is good but what about the first time you read it. Young kids seem to not pay attention to the stories at first. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| These are just a few- How old are your kids? If they're old enough to read, and then act out, simple dramas, then the fun is really about to start. |
Yesterday, we read a scary story and acted it out. It worked well. The only problem is having students act in a class of 16. If only 4 are acting at once the others will quickly lose interest. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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For the first read, make sure they have a task, which requires reading, but is achievable. For example, give them a dozen picture cards (with scenes from the story) that they have to put in order. Or make them make a list of the main characters, with descriptions of each one. Or order the principle events of the story...
Sounds like the scary story was fun. I try to divide the class into groups, so that instead of 4 performing, 12 watching, you have 4 groups of four, in separate corners of the room, planning, writing, and rehearsing their plays...
After they've got them together, you could have each group perform for the class- but you don't have to. Really, the point is the time they spend preparing, writing, and speaking English. Whether they perform is kind of up to you.
I'll be trying your spelling race later today...
Enjoy,
Justin |
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