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ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

You might want to read this first...
http://www.mexiconews.com.mx/20695.html

There's a very small naval base here in Huatulco near Playa La Entrega. Normally you don't really notice much military presence around except for the occasional person in uniform in town. On Saturday, as I walked around town doing my usual shopping and chores here in Huatulco, I noticed a lot of military activity. There were several flatbeds and semi-trailers in town carrying armored personnel carriers and other military vehicles. All weekend there were a lot of military and armored vehicles driving around town.

On Sunday afternoon I was sitting in my house when I heard a rumble in the distance and my apartment started to shake. At first I thought it was an earthquake but after a few seconds I heard the neighborhood kids making a commotion outside. When I looked outside it looked like a scene from "Apocalypse Now": about a dozen helicopters were flying in formation over the town. They made a couple of loops at low altitude; I have to say it was quite a spectacle.

This morning I read the article above. "Routine supply runs," my arse. Maybe the military are just having some kind of war games exercise, and thought it would make a show of force by flying over Oaxaca City. Maybe - but it wouldn't surprise me at all if we see 'something' happen in the next few days with the military in Oaxaca.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

It certainly does look like things are coing to a head. 'Military exercises' are a convenient excuse.

Still, given the potential for serious problems in Oaxaca, the Fed has to show that ultimately, they are in control of things. It would be better if they displayed a beefed up force of police and not the military though. Seems heavy-handed.

Unless they're filming a movie out there? Bad timing if so...

delacosta · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 325 Location: zipolte beach

We also had a few choppers flying over Zipolite, low over the beach. Out for a quick flesh gawk I imagine, although there's hardly a soul around. It is the low season but I've never seen it this dead.

As for Oaxaca nothing will happen till after Wednesday when the big meeting takes place between the SG, APPO, the teachers and supposedly there will be more representatives from various Oaxacan sectors.

The troop movements and choppers are only to intimidate. It is a clear signal being sent from the federal government to the APPO: negoiotiate or pay the consequences.
Today is the anniversary of the massacre of student protestors in Tlatenco in 1968 so it would be too imprudent to initiate another one on or near this date.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

We live in a different world and a different Mexico from that of the 60's or even the 70's, 80's, and 90's. The Fed, like you say, is bringing a show of force to the table. There is no way that it will get as bloody as when the world was a larger place and where you could more easily cover up such things.

Hey, a benefit in globablization! My interets are now your interests, and vice versa, says the world.

delacosta · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 325 Location: zipolte beach

And this just in: http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/378693.html

For non-Spanish speakers: this morning three banks were assaulted by a group declaring themselves ready for war against Ruiz and the federal government. They exploded fireworks in the banks and left a message saying they were armed and ready to fight.

Uh huh. Just like the guerillas that appeared a few weeks ago giving out leaflets calling for armed revolution. Too bad they didn't think to wear something other than new Nikes and driving up in the new white pick ups used by state workers.

The possibility, never mind the likelihood given the situation, of blood being spilt should be enough to drive home the necessity for a political solution to this problem. If Fox or Calderon are not capable of coming to a political solution to this crisis it will be evident that they are not up to the task of governing Oaxaca or Mexico in the coming months and years, a situation that exists due to their own actions during the recent federal election.

Whatever actions that are taken will give a clear indication of how Calderon will govern. Will it be the same old way of making deals with the desires of political and economic actors given prominence in detriment to the well being of the rest of Mexico?

Making deals with the worst of what PRI represents does not bode well for the country and least of all for Calderon's legitimacy. This could be an opportunity to gain much needed political respect. Is he up to it?

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

At least Calderon hasn't made any 'I'll solve it in 15 minutes' promises. Rolling Eyes

I'd be interested to hear from anyone on if the military is out on the highways with roadblocks and checkpoints. I experienced that once in 2001 in Oaxaca somewhere outside PE, and again in 2005 between Aguascalientes and Zacatecas.

MELEE · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject:

Ben Round de Bloc · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1946

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Is Oaxaca so different that you think another 1968 Tlatelolco massacre is in the making? I can't believe that...Oaxaca might be isolated and different from other parts of varied Mexico, but it certainly isn't away from the eyes of the international community.

MELEE · Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject:

I don't think another 2 de Octubre is in the making, but only because the situation has slowly been building and I think the majority of the people would perfer the status quo over something like that. People of all opinions have been on edge, hoping it won't come to that. The biggest problem in my opinion is that I don't trust soldiers not to panic and over react. Which is what happened back in July. Luckily, that was a wake up call, saying another Tlatelolco could happen. Now I think it won't thanks to that wake up call.

delacosta · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 325 Location: zipolte beach

Somethings gotta happen, either today or tomorrow.
There have been helicopters flying around since Friday and I saw quite a few truckloads of soldiers. What's interesting is all of these are navy,not army. Once again, the army doesn't want to get involved-unless given direct written orders by the president, the same thing that was demanded of Fox back when he asked for assistance in moving out the protesters from DF.

The PRI has upped the pressure on both Fox and Calderon. Last Wednesday when the PRI and the PRD both walked out of congress together it was a warning to the PAN as to what could happen on December 1st when Calderon is scheduled to officially start as Prez.
The photos in which Abascal was seen smiling and shaking hands with the APPO and Seccion 22 leaders caused further offence and it was made clear to the PAN (by diputado Gamboa): if you allow Ruiz to be desposed of in any shape or form you can forget about PRI support on December 1st, and by implication the rest of the sexenio. That's what at play with Oaxaca.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I'm glad you've started to note the three-way interplay going on, rather than try to connect PAN to PRI. PAN and by extension president-elect Calderon are forced to play uncle here to two nephews slugging it out behind the barn.

Sorry, that is disrespectful to the people of Oaxaca. But so is playing them for political wrangling over 2nd place.

Where are these DF protesters? No room in the Zocalo for them as the book fair has nearly every square inch occupied.

I finally found out how one removes a state governor. The Federal Senate can convene a procedure known as 'desaparacion de poderes publicos' (removal [disappearance] of state control). The Senate committee that oversees the procedure happens to be headed by a PRI Senator. There's talk of this procedure now.

J Sevigny · Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 161

Obviously nothing's happened so far. But I do want to add that the south of Mexico really isn't anything like Mexico City and anything is possible there.

During the Zedillo administration, 35 campesinos were killed in four separate incidents in Guerrero.

Then there was the Acteal massacre in which 40-something people were killed in a church.

According to the APPO, 35 people have been killed since the crisis began in Oaxaca.

Even the handling of the Atenco problem should show what the government is capable of doing when provoked.

Of course, none of this compares to 1968 and 1971. But political killing is political killing.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Looks like the teachers are going back to work? I wonder what the next step in the fight against the 'guv' is now? The Senate refuses to take action to remove Ruiz.

By the way, this is a pic taken of the protests in Oaxaca.

The article I got it from didn't mention anything, but I'm stumped to figure out what is going on in the picture. That's obviously not a flamethrower, but what is it? Fireworks?

delacosta · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 325 Location: zipolte beach

THe above picture is a tube used to launch fireworks. It's the kind of homemade weapons that some of the APPO have.
For a distrubing and scary set of photos of what was happening yesterday in Oaxaca city check out the following link:

http://fotos.eluniversal.com.mx/fotogaleria/wfg.html?gal=2838

THe guys shooting have been identified as various local PRI leaders.
Fox has given the orders to send in federal troops today.

An American photographer was killed yesterday, one of four reported deaths.