Job Discussion Forums

[mep3]

I posted this inside a different thread, and it was generating some interest there, and it occurred to me that it would probably be a good idea to post it as a separate topic.

A FT was having trouble with a school jerking him around about something. I commented that FT's have so much trouble over here with administrations and/or FAO offices that are dishonest/unfair, etc..,
that it would be a great resource if we could generate a list of schools that are decent to work for. The more I think about it, the more it comes to seem like an essential resource we are missing. Here's the idea in full:

This thread seems to me to bring up a larger, overriding question: how to avoid bad schools with bad management.

The advice I was given in the past was to ask the schools for references from past or present foreign teachers there. But it doesn't necessarily seem to work; often they give you the ones who are partisan, and you get there and you find that 9 out of 10 foreign teachers there feel opposite to the contacts you were given.

Any other suggestions about how to simply get a list of schools where the administration treats the FT's decently/fairly?

The one idea that occurs to me is to just have the members of this forum compile a list together and have it be a running list that people can add schools to in the future. As with many ideas, it has problems. Two come to mind off-hand:

1. I know there is a polls feature on this site. But is there any feature like the one I'm talking about -- a running list rather than a thread? The problem with doing it as a thread is that once it goes un-responded to for a week or two -- even one time -- it will get buried several pages back, and just fall into disuse. Most people will never know it is there, so they won't know to simply pop on and add the name of a school they are at where the admin is good.

2. People from the FAO offices at schools, if they know of the list, could add their schools to it, thus diluting it and rendering the list basically false?

All this is just meant as brainstorming, trying to work up an idea for how to better know what the decent schools are, and so not have to go through the process of unpleasant surprises and difficult situations after arriving. Finding a way to pool our resources and do that could make life a lot better/easier/more pleasant for all of us. I know there are some problems with my idea, like the ones I mentioned. But I hope it's possible to figure something out. I think it would make a big difference over here for all of us. Any thoughts on method?

M

[Areut]

How about people post their schools here and you edit and add them to the first post so people will not have to go thru all the post. Just a idea.

[prof]

You are going to have some current employee attempt to gain the favor of their bosses by saying "my school is great, signed so and so."

And then they'll eventually learn that the Chinese don't admire such Western tactics and they leave.

[Craig!]

i like Areut's idea. Build a list, mep3, please. You may add mine to the ''decent'' list [see website below].
Rating references is vitally important - but too subjective; prof is right.
Percentage of school staff & teachers who are Party members might be a good indicator.

[7969]

well we do have warnings from teachers who are at schools where things arent going so well. it makes sense to have a positive list as well. i'd add my current school to the list of good places to work.

craig, where's the link to your website?

7969

[jammish]

I'd definitely add my old school too. The salary wasn't amazing - very average- but otherwise a decent place to work, and a good starter job without a doubt.

[cj750]

This list would have to be updated too often..as the situation as well as personnel changes and thereby changing the suitability of a school....new buildings..money problems and changing markets can t run a good school bad....

An example..an Australian school near Beijing has a guy who works there (Charles Pei) who was a good guy at one time but has turned into some what of a racist...this has taken a fair situations and turned it dark for many FTs...now he is in a honorary role without much juice..so maybe in a year the situation will change...

[no_exit]

I think that this would come a little bit too close to being a free advertising opportunity. Dave's asks schools to pay a lot of money to put their job postings up on the job board after all. Even if it did fly with the moderators, what's to stop schools from creating a name and saying "such and such is so great and guess what, they need 2 teachers for next semester," defeating the purpose of such a list in the first place. Teachers aren't the only ones on this forum.

Nice idea, but probably not practical. Aside from the above scenario, there would probably be problems with keeping it current and up to date as cj mentions.

[clark.w.griswald]

The best way to do what you want to do here at Daves would be to contact the mods here and ask for a sticky.

My advice is that you go for a closed sticky that cannot be posted onto directly. People can PM school details to you or to one of the mods and they then add this information to the list. This will help filter out schools looking for free advertising as well as preventing the thread from being derailed by discussions that arent' exactly in the spirit of the thread.

By doing this you will resolve one problem but create another as people may not want to go to the trouble of sending a PM.

Anyway, good luck. I have always thought information about good schools that are worth working at is far more useful information than the general griping that you see about bad schools.

[kev7161]

Actually, I did contact one of the mods about this a couple of days ago. He suggested I contact Dave directly. I haven't really bothered to as this is not a HUGE issue to me (but seems important nevertheless). If anyone wants to be ringleader of this, PM me and I'll pass along that message to you and you can take it from there.

[tw]

[Areut]

[Areut]

Also does anyone have or know of a good site for a list of Blogs written by teachers in China. Thanks in advance!

[englishgibson]

[KarenB]

Another things is that it's always a matter of opinion. What one FT might consider a great place to work might not be the Garden of Eden for the next FT. For instance, I like my current school (5th year here) and several other teachers have had very positive experiences here. But others have been more negative. For instance, some of them don't get along with the FAO (while others of us have enjoyed a good relationship) and others think our small town is too boring.

So, maybe we could evaluate the schools in terms of different categories -- such as housing, FAO (ability to do job as well as relationship), administration, fellow teachers (Chinese), salary and benefits, work expectations, location of the school in terms of how far it is to things like shopping, Western food, entertainment, beaches, etc., location of school in terms of clean air and other environmental and safety issues. Basically, some things are more important to some of us than others are, so that should be reflected in any evaluation that is made.

I don't think this would necessarily be "free" advertising for the schools, because no school is perfect, so various FTs would be able to voice their opinions. But there are definitely schools out there that are better than average, and the newbies who are doing their research should be able to know those schools as well as the ones to avoid.

Also, as said above, brownnosing doesn't really win any points in China with one's employer. By that I mean that insincere praise doesn't help you any. A positive, upbeat attitude does make a difference.