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mep3
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 212
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 Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: legal role of letter of release? |
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I'm confused as to how essential the letter of release is in getting a job at a new school, if you have completed your contract at the first school.
Before I came over here (2005), I read a number of posts about people breaking contracts because of some problem they were having at the school. The gist of the advice they were given was that if you break a contract, you must get a letter of release from the school, or else you will not be able to get a job at a different school in China during That Year (i.e. during the time you are holding the current visa). In other words, fulfilling the terms of the contract impacts what you can do during That Year. After that contract is up, you are free to do what you like. They were saying that even if you broke the contract, you wouldn't be able to work somewhere else during that year, but THE NEXT YEAR you could.
But this year, before I came to a new school, they required a letter of release from the school I was at at the time, before they would seal the deal. They said it was a legal requirement for the visa (not just a requirement of theirs because they wanted a letter of recommendation). So is the letter of release a legal necessity for a job you will begin even AFTER you finish your current contract? It seems opposite what I explained in the first paragraph. Thx .... M |
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KES
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 722
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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The PSB is getting more and more demanding about release letters.
It seems they are currently on a drive to identify those who have departed their schools with more than 30 days open on their FRP - for whatever reason.
This method seems a means to identify those who have done so.
But hey, that's just the info from one PSB - your milage may vary. |
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mep3
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 212
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject: ok... |
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Thanks. Okay, so do you need it then if you've completed your contract? And if so, why?
Also, if you get it for another school to begin the visa application process for the following year, you'll probably be getting it a month or two before the end of the schoolyear anyway. So it wouldn't stop you from jumping ship early. In fact, all it would do is facilitate it. So....what's the purpose?
M |
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prof
Joined: 25 Jun 2004
Posts: 741
Location: Boston/China
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| Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| The purpose is CONTROL. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| The letter is a regulation document intended to releave the work unit of responisibility....it's intended purpose is to insure the authority that the RP holder has no outstanding issues with the former work unit...usually given right before departure it also enables the work unit to insure that all necessary procedures have been completed...and no two schools do them alike.. |
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Steppenwolf
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 1769
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:49 am Post subject: Re: legal role of letter of release? |
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| mep3 wrote: |
| Before I came over here (2005), I read a number of posts about people breaking contracts because of some problem they were having at the school. The gist of the advice they were given was that if you break a contract, you must get a letter of release from the school, or else you will not be able to get a job at a different school in China during That Year ( |
Trying to walk in the shoes of your adversary may open your eyes a bit...
You see, the "problems some FTs were experiencing..." with their employers could be seen as "problems those employers were experiencing with their FTs...".
Some of those get so big the employers want to get rid of their FTs and also get a penalty from them.
Enforcing the latter is not always easy. A letter of release informs the reader that the bearer has no debt towards their ex employer.
That's one of the reasons why you may have to get yours! |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: Re: ok... |
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| mep3 wrote: |
Thanks. Okay, so do you need it then if you've completed your contract? And if so, why?
Also, if you get it for another school to begin the visa application process for the following year, you'll probably be getting it a month or two before the end of the schoolyear anyway. So it wouldn't stop you from jumping ship early. In fact, all it would do is facilitate it. So....what's the purpose? M |
i dont know of too many teachers who will cut and run from a job one month before the contract ends just because they got a letter of release in may or early june. why would you leave when you've probably been there the better part of a year, and are about to receive the end of contract bonuses?
7969 |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: legal role of letter of release? |
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OP, your question is a really good one, I must say.
7969, I think that a Letter of Release is supposed to be given to all FTs leaving their gig with their employer. Once their Contracts/permits in China are about to be over this letter is supposed to provide the local PSB with the FTs employer's agreement of their departure from their positions. So, if it really is a breach of Contract or just the end of it, it doesn't matter. This Letter of Release is supposed to serve the FTs as a permission for that L visa to travel on further wherever they wish to travel.
Wolf,
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| Enforcing the latter is not always easy. |
"enforcing" laws/regulations "is not always easy" in China, is it? 
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| A letter of release informs the reader that the bearer has no debt towards their ex employer. |
and that might be a part of the "Letter's" purpose too. 
CJ,
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| The letter is a regulation document intended to releave the work unit of responisibility....it's intended purpose is to insure the authority that the RP holder has no outstanding issues with the former work unit...usually given right before departure it also enables the work unit to insure that all necessary procedures have been completed...and no two schools do them alike.. |
quite an agreeable post..and the truth
The Letter of Release is to be given to FTs in China, but if they exit the country without any plans of coming back...little reason they have to seek it from their employers.
If you are in China and plan staying and working on in China, my advice would be to get your Letters from your employers on the end of your employment agreements.
Prof,
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| The purpose is CONTROL. |
right on there 
Peace to Foreign Affairs, PSBs and employers in China
and
cheers and beers to all FTs  |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 7969, I think that a Letter of Release is supposed to be given to all FTs leaving their gig with their employer. Once their Contracts/permits in China are about to be over this letter is supposed to provide the local PSB with the FTs employer's agreement of their departure from their positions. So, if it really is a breach of Contract or just the end of it, it doesn't matter. This Letter of Release is supposed to serve the FTs as a permission for that L visa to travel on further wherever they wish to travel. |
englishgibson, it sounded to me like the OP was suggesting that if a teacher obtained their letter of release early, indicating that there was a clean slate between the teacher and the school, what would prevent a teacher from breaking the contract once that letter was issued, as possession of that letter is proof that the teacher's contractual obligations have been met. i said, why would any teacher get the letter early, then skip out on the school a month before the contract ends? anyone who had spent almost a full year at a school would never leave early simply because they had the letter of release, thereby foregoing their airfare reimbursement, final salary, and holiday pay. schools give the letter of release early in most cases i think because they know the teacher is going to hang around to pick up that pile of cash at the end. the OPs belief that anyone might break the contract early just because they got the letter early makes no sense. |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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This Letter of Release is supposed to serve the FTs as a permission for that L visa to travel on further wherever they wish to travel.
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not sure I understand what you mean..as many FTs are asked to prove they have money in the bank to support their travels... |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: legal role of letter of release? |
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proof of having that money...not when they are ending their contracts in China with their residency permits (work permits) expiring on their last day of work..sure some have their priviledge of having their permits for a bit (few days, couple weeks etc ) longer than their contractual agreements, but the ones that don't ...still in both scenarios once your employment's DONE you/FTs MUST act and convert your/their permits accordingly...if you/they aren't working for the employer anymore, the L shall be sought from local PSB office to move on.
Of course many don't do that or are unaware of having to do that..and then of course Chinese officials follow-ups are quite confusing as well as double standarded around China.
I hope you know what I mean now.
Indonesia's got some "exit permit" standards, although i am rather unaware of its specifics...China's employers' Letter of Release shall serve the officials with some kinda security that foreigners do live up to their contractual agreements or break it with mutual agreements.
Cheers and beers to all FTs in China |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| proof of having that money...not when they are ending their contracts in China with their residency permits (work permits) expiring on their last day of work. |
i disagree..if the PSB wants to inforce the requirement ..they can do so..as their is no seperation of requirements for a former RP holder obtaining a L visa from that of a regular travler trying to extend a visa...
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| still in both scenarios once your employment's DONE you/FTs MUST act and convert your/their permits accordingly |
I do not beleave this is a requirement..but if you have a regulation to site ..i am all ears... |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: legal role of letter of release? |
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hey, i don't wanna get into our usual bickerin or anythin , but what you believe in, want or can do is one thing and what the officials intentions are is yet another one .... so, if you've finished your contract and work, you are allowed to expand you stay with the letter of release and to L visa..that's all i am saying....otherwise, if you break your contract letter's needed as well
Peace to ya CJ
and
cheers and beers to the rest |
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cj750
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
Posts: 3081
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| you are allowed to expand you stay with the letter of release and to L visa..that's all i am saying....otherwise, if you break your contract letter's needed as well |
anytime you leave a work unit..you need a letter of release...and your only allowed if conditions are met..but as far as I know ..you do not need to change to an L...if the school allows you to carry the RP to the new location ..but as of last night I heard that you only have 30 days to change it..and if you don not..the PSB will question you and the former school as to why they did not cancel the RP after the thirty day grace period...this is made possible by a new natin wide data base hving the information of all RPs... |
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englishgibson
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4345
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: |
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You've got a good point there with that "new PSB data base" with respect to RPs.
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| you are allowed to expand you stay with the letter of release and to L visa..that's all i am saying....otherwise, if you break your contract letter's needed as well |
.....you do not need to change to an L...if the school allows you to carry the RP to the new location ..but as of last night I heard that you only have 30 days to change it.. ... |
RPs are given for a reason...if that reason isn't valid anymore, RPs must be converted to L visas...L gives a reason to travel or seek yet another employment elsewhere in the country... and this is where the Chinese officials double standard kicks in, since in some parts of China you aren't allowed to convert your L to anything else APPARENTLY...right here, it does look to me that Chinese officials are rather unsure about how to standardize their policies with regards to foreign labor and their permits...havin' said that i still believe that L visas issued in China are looked upon differently than the L visas issued outside of China..(just a thought there)
In any case, RPs shall be converted to Ls as soon as FTs employment obligations end...otherwise, FTs might face nuisances later..one scenario that i've heard or read (sorry unsure now) somewhere is that an FT's RP was cancelled without his knowledge and he had to pay a substential penalty for overdues on his stay in China...not sure myself wheather that scenario is actual and possible...just what i've heard/read to give you an idea of how much trouble one could get into...i bet some employers have their connections, intentions etc that we know little about.
Let's stay safe and get our Letters of Release in order to follow up appropriately and in a timely manner.
Cheers and beers to all FTs in China |
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