Job Discussion Forums

[prof]

As a very experienced teacher,

I'm calling for all EFL teachers in China to set the standard at 250RMB / hour.

I know they can pay..now matter which city you're in.

The market CAN afford that.

Comments?

[Shan-Shan]

[william wallace]

nil

[Steppenwolf]

Sure, 250 sounds even like a bargain to me; why not ask for 500 - I am sure "prof" will consider even that possible.

This is the best way of pricing FTs out of the market. There is that other thread about a Shijiazhuang kindergarten that hires certain foreigners only - because they are even willing to PAY to come to teach in China...

And let us clear a misunderstanding: if people are so blind to reality as to actually pay you five times per hour as they make themselves (a Chinese making 50 kuai an hour is a well-paid professional) they probably would prefer to go abroad and get the real thing. Not some dancing foreign panda!

[2 over lee]

Four years ago the standard rate in Shanghai was 200 RMB, I got 250 for one job in which I had to travel an hour out of the city centre. As William has said IELTS used to pay well - I once stood in for an IELTS examiner and got 800 for two hours. And the guys I knew who were examiners used to get 5000 for a weekend of examining - they flew around the country to do this.

I think 200 or even 250 an hour for business English is OK in Shanghai or Beijing. But not so for the rest of the country.

What gets me with these high paying jobs is that the Chinese still don't know how to select the right people. I had been hired by a training company in Shanghai along with four others to teach various courses, at various universities. I was 24 from NZ with a BA in literature to my name - the other four were all older, had MBA's and were American. Who did the Chinese select to teach the MBA students English? Yep me!! And I knew if I refused that job I wouldn't get any others from the company!

It is not hard to select people, look at there CVs for Christ's sake; if need be make it a requirement that all CVs are submitted in English and Mandarin.

[jammish]

I'm not sure about your last point, 2oL. Would be quite harsh on otherwise excellent teachers whose Mandarin wasn't great. A certain mutual acquaintaince who works at your old place has awful Mandarin...

[Shan-Shan]

[no_exit]

I think the point about submitting CVs in Chinese is that if they're submitted only in English, then our Chinese employers might not be able to distinguish between well qualified and non-qualified teachers. I fully agree. When I am recommending teachers for our branch offices which don't have foreign managers, and I fax or e-mail CVs over, I always worry about whether or not this teachers qualifications (or lack thereof) will be clear to the staff. When possible, I have an assistant first translate the CV into Chinese before forwarding it.

As for the salary issue ... I have to say, every so often it seems like a post comes up here with someone saying "FTs should get XXX and not a penny less." These sort of posts completely ignore the fact that different places have different markets. If you asked for 250RMB an hour where I live, you would quickly be shown the door and never called again. You'd have effectively priced yourself completely out of the market. I would lose money at my school if I paid FTs that much. As for one on one students, the going rate here is about 100RMB an hour, and while you might find a big wig willing to pay more, it would be a matter of luck.

And while qualified and experienced FTs (like prof) are certainly able to demand higher prices, the vast majority of FTs out there are neither qualified nor experienced. Do you really think that teachers such as yourself are abundant here in China? Most of the time you're dealing with kids straight out of college, and sadly it is they, rather than the experienced teachers, who dictate the market value of the FT.

There are schools out there that will pay more for qualifications and experience, and then there are schools that would rather save a buck and hire a fresh graduate. Sometimes schools even luck out and get a fresh graduate who turns out to be a great teacher and everybody wins, except the school gets the (misguided) idea that they don't really need those expensive teachers afterall. I do, in fact, firmly believe in higher salaries for good teachers, but there's got to be a strict definition of what is "good." Maybe you mean the same thing I do prof, but I worry about newbies getting the wrong idea about their salary prospects. 250 is possible in certain cities and if you're qualified in certain areas (IELTS, etc.), but some people will never see that kind of money, no matter what.

[tw]

I called a Changchun language training centre and told them I was looking for part-time work. I asked for 200 RMB without telling them anything about my ethnic background and they wouldn't go any higher than 100 RMB an hour. "This is what all our foreign teachers make here" was the explanation.

[China.Pete]

"Most of the time you're dealing with kids straight out of college, and sadly it is they, rather than the experienced teachers, who dictate the market value of the FT." -- No Exit

No Exit describes, pretty succinctly I believe, how the ELT market actually does work. I think what Prof is calling for would constitute what could be construed as an independent union -- something unknown in China, and increasingly less common in even some Western countries like the U.S.

"I can honestly say (and that's given that you don't truly know me, or my qualifications via this marvelous internet posting) that I've been totally humbled by ELT." -- William Wallace

Have you ever given any thought to putting your B.Ed. to work at any of the international schools that seem to be cropping up all over these days? I would think the pay, and possibly the working conditions, would be superior to many of the run-of-the-mill university jobs out there.

[tofuman]

I was once offered 1000 RMB for giving a fifteen minute talk. Considering transportation, mealtime, etc, I figure the entire gig could have taken up 4 hours, max.

All I had to do was LIE to a group of Chinese employees by telling that I was from their bosses other company in the USA.


I passed.

[Lobster]

We've been down this road a few times. A qualified teacher (with a relevant degree, TESOL training and 2 years of teaching experience) should be receiving this amount for any class time. We've had a few posters here who were shocked when they found out how much students were paying and how much a school was earning for sticking them in a classroom and sitting back.

Start by asking for this amount for any additional work that you don't really need and for the extra lessons and privates and outside jobs you're offered. Soon, employers will wake up to the fact that a qualified FT costs 250/hr. and will adjust their thinking accordingly. If you're in a secondary location with a low cost of living, you could lower your demands to 200.

Just as old hands are asked to provide support to newcomers in terms of information, tips and arranging better conditions, newcomers are asked to provide support by not accepting lousy wages to finance their travel and adventures and by behaving themselves during their time here.

RED

[mondrian]

[Shan-Shan]

[william wallace]

nil.