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Collective Nouns Are Plural?
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daodejing



Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting "government" or "committe" inside a prepositional phrase so you don't have to deal with its number is akin to using the measure word ge when there is some debate about whether the proper measure word should be tiao or zhi. Or if you don't know if you should use "chairman", "chairperson" or "chairwoman" to describe the female chair of a committee, so instead you just say "the head of the committee" -- it creatively rearranges the sentence and avoids the issue, but it's not the most efficient or eloquent way of expressing yourself (although maybe it is efficient because you don't get into a three-day discussion about the finer points of usage..or style).
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the most "efficient or eloquent" way of expressing the sentence so that it's acceptable to an American audience?
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thrifty



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 1665
Location: chip van

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry_Cowell wrote:
Henry is most decidely not in China! He has a real life and career. Laughing


Are you finally admitting that TEFLing is not a career and not a real life?
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daodejing



Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry_Cowell wrote:
What's the most "efficient or eloquent" way of expressing the sentence so that it's acceptable to an American audience?


There is no best way to deal with the "chairperson" issue. If you say "chairman" to describe a woman, some find it sexist. If you use "chairperson" or "chairwoman" some will accuse you of being too politically correct. Now I hate p.c., but I think it is appropriate to make the language gender neutral if possible. Things have changed--women can chair committees nowadays, so I see no problem updating the language to reflect the change in the culture.

As for government and committee in written English, I would try to avoid unnecessary prepositional phrases if possible and keep the whole sentence singular, e.g. "The committee is not in agreement on the action it should take", if that's what you want to say. There may be some value in writing "the members of..." if that better expresses what you're trying to communicate. In spoken English, if there won't be transcipt of what you say then don't worry about, just try to be clearly understood.
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Macquereau



Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: Collective Nouns Are Plural? Reply with quote

A number of lawyers are in the conference room.

The book explains that "a number of" is a modifier which means "many".
Hence the subject of the sentence is lawyers rather than number

Correction:
"Of" is a preposition. "Of lawyers" is a prepositional phrase which, by definition, is never the subject of a sentence. Remove the prepositional phrase and you have "A number is in the conference room". Correct.

Or, remove the "modifier" 'A number of' and leave "Lawyers are in the conference room". Also correct.

Using both: "A number of lawyers IS in the conference room".
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Henry_Cowell



Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thrifty wrote:
Henry_Cowell wrote:
Henry is most decidely not in China! He has a real life and career. Laughing


Are you finally admitting that TEFLing is not a career and not a real life?

"thrifty" needs to read more slowly and carefully. And he needs to stop projecting his own sorry delusions onto others.
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