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Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

It's always darkest right before the break of dawn.

The Senate voted against removing Ruiz from power. According to the letter of the law, there needs to be a complete lack of governance for the Fed to step in a assume control. That doesn't cover situations like civil war, rebellion, minority uprisings, etc.

Odd...you would think that PRI on the federal level would want to reign in their state level brethren.

MO39 · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:53 am Post subject:

Well, Fox has finally sent the army to Oaxaca, and, from what I've been reading on the internet (including an eye-witness account on MexConnect.com), all hell has broken loose there. If, after all this, Ruiz isn't removed, what horrible events could ensue?

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Where are you reading? According to what I'm reading (and seeing on local news), the federal police have been sent, and not the army. All hell broke loose on Friday and now the Fed is stepping between the two opposing parties. With the Fed in place, it will be very hard for PRI state goons to attack protesters and cause havoc and hard for APPO to maintain blockades or for individuals to go wild. Only the negotiating table remains unblocked.

ls650 · Joined: 10 May 2003 Posts: 3484 Location: British Columbia

One source of info:
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/noticias.html (Spanish)

It's strange how the story can sound completely different when you read it from different angles:
According to this Mexican source, when the cops showed up, most of the protestors they met up with were peaceful and offered little resistance.
http://www.mexiconews.com.mx/miami/21413.html

Yet according to this American media account, things were violent:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061030/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_oaxaca_unrest

Who to believe?

MELEE · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject:

I was watching Televisa this morning, something I rarely do, but our local radio was mysteriouly knocked off the are Saturday during the midday call in show. So I guess when Gil Scott-Heron said the revolution would not be televised, he was slightly mistaken, it on TV, but not broadcast on the radio!

So the televisa guy was standing on the outskirts of Oaxaca, I clearly recoginezed the location as the highway in from Mexico City. He had a phone connection with a journalist Blanche something who was in the center of Oaxaca and not a Televisa employee. Everytime she started to say something like, The people have rallied behind the APPO against the feds, he cut her off.
The feds took the Zocalo, because the APPO left it to reinforce other barricades around the city. The Feds are now trapped in the Zocalo, the APPO has called for marches from the 4 points into the Zocalo at 10:00---Stay tuned...

delacosta · Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 325 Location: zipolte beach

THat's similar to an analysis that I just read-the feds are now surrounded in the center of the city, as the now radicalised and angry APPO advances upon them from all sides.

After 5 months and aproximately 14 Oaxacan deaths all it took was the death of one American and a strongly worded letter to Fox for him to decide to send in troops. The death of Oaxacans wasn't quite enough to catch his attention.

The saddest thing is that all of this is being done to prop up Ruiz, an indefencible PRI gangster. Why? That's the pact in place in order for Calderon to be able to be sworn in as Prez December 1st. THat's the pact between PRI and PAN in order for PAN to be able to govern as they see fit the next 6 years(did I say six, sorry how many is to 2030?)

The lives of 'indios' of Oaxaca don't count. The state itself doesn't either, 5 months of tolerating an intolerable situation that arose out of Election chess playing is proof of that.

MELEE · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject:

Sorry the orders are to march on the Zocalo at 16:00 not 10:00 my mistake, so if you a perched on the edge of your chair waiting for something to happen, you can relax for a couple of hours. Luckliy, my husband told me this morning that he knows this is not "his time" so I will probably be able to keep him from heading out.

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

MELEE · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject:

First here is a link to some photos
http://cryptome.org/oaxaca-01/oaxaca-04.htm

Guy, durin URO's election count, "the system" crashed, and when it came back up, URO was suddenly way ahead, when the two candidates had been running neck and neck.

The PRI and the PAN ultimately want the same thing, they want to keep the masses of poor rural Mexican and poor urban Mexicans under educated with enables them to be kept down and exploited. The difference is that the PRI wants Mexico for the ingroup, and the PAN wants Mexico for the technocrats.

But the PAN needs the PRI because the PRI is way more than a "dead federal party" the PRI is Mexico as most of the world knows it. The PRI is all the federal institutions, including and especially the IFE.

I'm not sure why, but this whole thing makes the U2 song "The Fly" keep playing over and over in my head.
(abridged version below)
t's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky
It's no secret that our world is in darkness tonight
They say the sun is sometimes eclipsed by a moon
You know I don't see you when she walks in the room

It's no secret that a friend is someone who lets you help
It's no secret that a liar won't believe anyone else
They say a secret is something you tell one other person
So I'm telling you, child

It's no secret that a conscience can sometimes be a pest
It's no secret ambition bites the nails of success
Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief
All kill their inspiration and sing about their grief

It's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky
The universe exploded 'cause of one man's lie
Look, I gotta go, yeah I'm running outta change
There's a lot of things if I could I'd rearrange

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

Samantha · Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera

Guy wrote:

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

The Mexican Congress has unanimously demanded the resignation of Ruiz in Oaxaca. Ruiz has refused, and is now pretty much isolated politically. I would expect for federal PRI to be hunting around for some kind of face saving measure now that they have finally turned their back on Ruiz.

The situation is ugly...

Samantha · Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera

Real ugly. Shocked

Can't they just fire his butt out of there?

MELEE · Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject:

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I haven't see the textbooks you refer to, but I'll take your word that they are crap.

However, badly administered public education is a far far cry from saying that a federal governing party actively seeks to keep people undereducated, to keep them down, to exploit them.

I wonder if the very same textbooks are used in other rural districts that don't have the same poverty levels as in the southern states?

One thing I'm not sure of here either...I didn't think the federal government had complete control over education. I thought it was state government that control most facets, such as hiring, budgeting, allocation of resources, etc.

I don't like the idea of a party of big business calling all the shots either. Access to credit is a double-edged sword. Its educated use builds infrastructure, schools, stable industry, and employment, but its individual abuse can ruin lives and families. PAN would be a party that believes in the responsibility of the individual or of the family, but with Mexico only 6 years out of the long PRI nightmare, it's going to be decades before education catches up.