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Abba · Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 97 Location: UK

[quote="Cleopatra"]

Abba · Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 97 Location: UK

Cleopatra · Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject:

"Depends on what you mean by 'forced'."

I mean it in the normal sense of the world - having to do something against your will due to others making you do so.

"If the employee is given a place on a compound, he is hardly going to spend his own money and get a second place elsewhere."

Why not?

If he hates his compound that much, and has the option of living elsewhere (and I repeat, in all the places where I have worked in KSA, this option has been available to male teachers) why would he not avail of the opportunity to move out?

"As thrifty has said, BAe employees are given accommodation on a compound with no choice, KFUPM have the campus housing, DCC puts people in the Al-Falak compound, Bechtel Jubail puts people in its mini-compound, and a large etc."

And you are certain that none of these places (other than KFUPM which provides on-campus housing) offer living-out allowances?

In any case, as I've also said before, this whole issue is a bit of a red herring. Where you live - 'forced' or not - is not as important as your attitude is.

Queen of Sheba · Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 397

Abba · Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 97 Location: UK

Bebsi · Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 958

Most people work for money. This is reality. To deny this is either grossly hypocritical, or sadly delusional. Perhaps the gross exploitation in TEFL is partly due to this mentality, that teaching is not about money. Is it the case that there are many "non-materialistic" people out there, who actually believe money isn't important and who therefore teach English for a pittance, although the employers for whom they work certainly see TEFL as a business?

There is nothing wrong with working for money, and in this light, neither is there anything wrong with going to KSA for the money.

However, in economically developed societies, there is also an awareness that while work must be remunerated, the converse applies: for our daily bread, so to speak, most of us must work. To acquire wealth, we must create it. In other words, we should not expect to be paid for nothing.

Those of us who are professional, must do the job for which we get paid, and do it to the best of our ability. Sadly, there are many in KSA who are there for "easy" money. If the nature of the job is such that one gets a good salary for, let's say, relatively short hours or a pleasant and untaxing environment, there is indeed nothing wrong with easy money.

The problem arises when certain people try to avoid doing the job for which they are paid, through deceit and disingenuousness. Often, they are unable to do it through sheer incompetence. Sadly, there are many cases of this in KSA and other Gulf countries, and among the western English-teaching community, there seems to be no shortage of this phenomenon. These are the people who should be criticized. To lambast people for doing a job in order to get paid, is unfair and counter-productive. To describe as crass an admission that one is in KSA for the money, is to insult the intelligence of the Saudis. They know we go there for the money. They have no problem with that. What they DO have issues with, is the pretence that one is there for cultural or other reasons.

But...and this is the nub of the matter...they do deserve, like anyone else, to get what they pay for.

dmb · Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 8397

That was a party political broadcast by the Right Honourable Bebsi on behalf of the fair pay for hardworking teachers party. Wink

Queen of Sheba · Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 397

Abba · Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 97 Location: UK

Bebsi · Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 958

Stephen Jones · Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 4124

Cleopatra · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:18 am Post subject:

OK then, let's do a straw poll.

How many of the male teachers here have been 'forced' by their employers to live on compounds? As I said earlier, I'm not talking about teachers being given no choice but to live on-campus.

And btw I wasn't only talking about the places I myself have worked in in KSA, but also about other places I'm familiar with. As I say, I really don't think it is the norm, or even common, for teachers to have no option other than to live on one specific compound.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I have had 5 employers in Saudi going back to 1970. Only one of these paid me a housing allowance. The others provided accommodation, with no option of taking cash.

Cleopatra · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject:

Interesting, but not really an answer to my question, which was about teachers being 'forced' to live on compounds.

Queen of Sheba · Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 397

Let the truth be told. Me and my colleagues, a group of disgruntled Yemeni Bedu, meet expats at the airport with a gun to their heads and force them to live in compounds and engage in dubious bootlegging behavior as well. They are unhappy in KSA because my gang and I pop into these compounds and wave our guns around and force them to stay there, instead of allowing them to make more palatable personal and professional decisions.