Job Discussion Forums

[Kurochan]

For me, I'd say the answer is no. Going back to the US this summer, I was really struck by how angry and "clenched" (I can't explain it better than that) American men are. It's part Americans' idea of masculinity, I think, and a lot of men think they have to conform to it, because of this big time homosexual panic we have in the US.

In contrast, I think Chinese men, ON AVERAGE (you see, I'm not including everybody), are more free in themselves, on a minute to minute basis. It seems like whereas American men are always suspicious of their own masculinity, and checking it to see if it's going away or not -- well, I don't think fears about that are something Chinese men have in their heads.

Americans in general seemed really unhappy and worried last time I was at home, and don't seem to get that much happiness out of family and friends. Partly that's for economic reasons (being sucked into the credit culture, and how the credit culture affects market prices). There are other reasons too -- for Americans, I recommend a book called The Culture of Fear, by Barry Glassner.

It seems like Chinese people are less wound up and anxious than Americans, although I do know that a lot of Chinese people do feel constrained, and sometimes there's a sense of lonliness, b/c people feel that they can't open up and be honest with other Chinese because they have to think of "face."

So, it's not like I don't think Chinese culture has problems, but going home, I just see how unhappy Americans are ...

[dduck]

I seem to be the odd-man-out, as I've never been to Asia. Instead, I spent 3 years in The Netherlands and Germany. I knew almost nothing about either country before I went besides the stereotypes. I ended up loving both places and I was left with a deeper understanding of British culture as a result. If I had to choose I'd live in The Netherlands everytime.

Iain

[Jess_Laoshi]

Being away from America actually decreased my appreciation for it. Or maybe I just saw America more clearly, coming from a different perspective.

While I was away, I would occasionally get homesick and nostalgic, and when I came back to America, I was actually kind of excited about being in America again. I even remembered the rampant consumerism somewhat fondly!

However, once I got back, it wasn't what I had expected. Nothing lived up to the memory I'd had of home while I was away. It was disappointing. Even my favorite foods, which I'd been deprived of in China, didn't taste as good as I'd remembered them. Additionally, it was much easier for me to feel critical towards my country and it's people. I remember landing in LAX and being immediately struck by how many obese people there were. Before, I'd never really paid attention.

I'm not saying there's nothing I learned to appreciate about my culture though. Most of all, I became really grateful to have been brought up in a culture which allowed me my freedom and individuality. One of my Chinese friends asked me recently if I wished I was Chinese, since I lived in China, with a Chinese boyfriend, spoke Chinese, etc. Of course not, I told him. I'm glad I am who I am. Living abroad has given me perspective, and I feel like I can now look at both my own home culture and my host culture more objectively.

And I do think that what Roger said holds true for me as well. Living at home now is simply more boring than living abroad, and I enjoy the excitement that being in a new culture provides.

[J-Pop]

[struelle]

Good thread.

I'm sure that living abroad makes us appreciate the things of home more as time goes on.

But on the other hand, exposure to different cultures and host countries deepens our understanding of international awareness. I find it refreshing and rewarding to know that the Western way of doing things is not the only valid way, and not necessarily the "right" way either. In other words, living in different cultures gives exposure to different viewpoints, paradigms if you will, on how to see the world we live in.

A viewpoint is simply a view from a point. You can look at the world from many different points, and all help to give appreciation.

Two contrasting responses after living abroad after a period of time are to (a) reject the Western background entirely and embrace the host country's customs or to (b) reject the host country and embrace the West

Both of these miss the point on how to develop a more international understanding and awareness. Thinking in terms of 'West vs. rest' and so forth doesn't help. It's common to go abroad for a year or two, enjoy the experience, then return home to settle down. Maybe some people choose to settle down in foreign countries. Others continue traveling around, maybe spending a few years in different places.

Whatever the choice is I don't think really matters. What's more important is perspective. That is, how do other people live? How can I understand others more? What are the assumptions I carry from my own background that need to be challenged?

Steve

[Mark-O]

Shmooj, you don't happen to be a covert rep for the Great Britain Tourist Board do you? You really sold the place as a holiday destination!

All true though, all true.


Though may I suggest that you forgot another delighting aspect of GB - the odds-on chance of getting your head kicked in if you so much as make momentary eye contact with another (alpha) male anywhere in public. British mentality, can't beat it (excuse the pun).

[scot47]

Mark-O you said it. What I find depressing is that I remember a Britain that was not like this. Things have changed very rapidly for the worse.

I would no more go and live in my native UK than I would contemplate emigrating to the Congo.

[Gordon]

Living in Japan has made me realize how rude people are back in Canada and how service is an oxymoron there too. When you go into a store in Canada, they're perturbed that they have to get off the phone or put down their book.

[yaramaz]

Gordon, I just wanted to stand up for the service industry in Canada briefly... before my illustrious career in EFL here in Turkey, I put myself through University by working in a number of low-paying, no-benefit, degrading retail jobs. If I had been caught reading a book or chatting on the phone (except for business) then I would have been fired on the spot. I found actually that many Canadians treat service industry staff like dirt, speaking to us as though we are morons who must do their bidding. We must smile politely and try to fulfill their often unreasonable requests (ie returning something that has been already used for a full refund even though there is a visible written policy that says you can't) and deal with their misdirected hostility. I have full sympathy for waiters and cashiers and others who slog all day for minimum wage and no respect.

[Gordon]

Yaramaz,
I don't disagree with you regarding the difficulty in working in the service industry. I also did my fair share (9 years) working in bars, gas stations, restaurants, stores, gyms and completely understand. Customers can be a real pain in the butt, but there are a lot of rude employees. If you compare the service industry in Canada to many parts of Asia, we'd look real bad.
I know a big reason is that in Canada most places are severely understaffed which makes customers angrier because they've had to wait so long. This is not to discredit the employees, but it does affect the service in our service industry.

[yaramaz]

Maybe service industry employees are rude and inconsiderate because they are often treated so badly by both their employers and by customers. I know that in several of my jobs I often wondered why I should make any effort to please my boss and my customers since no one seemed to appreciate it. However, I actually LIKE working with people (hence becoming a teacher) so I did my best to provide the kind of service I'd expect. However, I suppose many more would disagree and say that you only give what you get back...

Do Japanese service staff get paid well? Are they overworked? Is there respect? Here in Turkey I hate going into stores because the staff follow you around like stalkers, hovering barely afoot away, staring but not saying a word. If you move, they follow. Its creepy. Sometimes several will hover around you, hauling out things that they think you want but which are usually not at all what you want... I actually kind of miss Canada's low key service...

[dduck]

[once again]

"Let me add too that only westerners have the intellectual maturity to make such an educated decision as to move house to an underdeveloped country and a parochial society, where they have to readapt and reintegrate. "

I am not sure what you are saying here Roger. I hope to god you are not suggesting what I think you are. Please let me know if I am wrong on this..but..It strikes me that you are suggesting that no "eastern person" would move to a country that was less developed than thier own. This begs questions of what definitions of developed are, which surely must be culturally specific and relative. I can assure you that most of England is parachoial in the sense that it does not respect other cultures or ideas. And to venerate westerners as having intellectual maturity against all others is trully offensive.

[J-Pop]

[nomadder]

Understand and appreciate my culture?


What culture?