Job Discussion Forums

[Henry_Cowell]

Again, there is nothing "bad" about the words bangga (proud) and kebanggaan (pride). They are in fact rather positive.

If you weren't so definite and absolute in your pronouncements here, you wouldn't be so defensive in your reactions to correction. And there wasn't anything "offensive" about my response to you. It was rather mild, actually.

[uilleannpiper]

Not lecturing here, just reflecting openly, and willing to be corrected -

My understanding is that the kingdoms of traditional Java held a Javanised version of the Hindu cosmology, hence Henry's statement that Hindu and Javanese Hindu are different. Whether that means that 'typical' Javanese notions of order and harmony actually predate the arrival of Hinduism, I'm not sure. Anthropologists tend to refer to these Kingdoms as 'Hindu-Javanese' rather than just 'Hindu' as is more often applied to the kingdoms of other parts of S.E.Asia.

However, I believe many of the trappings of Kejawen actually have quite recent histories, developing, being revived, or even being created, during Dutch administration (particularly after the splitting of the Mataram palace in 1755) and as recently as the post-revolution Independence period. These are commonly and erroneously equated with 'Hinduism'.

BTW, I'm not sure what you mean by your statement that - "Siting Niels Mulder only bolsters my perception."

Regards,

UP

[flapjack]

HC,
I just remembered, SOMBONG is proud in a negative way and BANGA is proud in a postive way.

I have a tendency to make pronouncements about things I am only guessing at, hahahahahhah. Oh well, it's just one of my stupid habits that annoy ther heck out of people. It's just my way of checking to see if I am wrong about things I thought I knew.

In fact if I could find a job making people frustrated and angry I would prolly be a millionaire by now!!! But being a heckler or just making stupid pronouncements just doesnt pay well. If you think of any good career opportunities for someone like me with little knowledge and loads of ability for pissing people off, please let me know!

Until then well I guess you will just have to learn to get along with my idiosyncracies, that is if you feel like it.

[flapjack]

Thanks uilleanpiper,
I am sure you must know more about it than I do. I just remember my personal experience with the students. I went to some of their homes and they told me about their Javanese-hindu ancestry, they showed me tiger skins on the wall, spears, etc. Also I had a friend who was doing his Ph.D in Javanese language and I remember some of the things he said about the javanese language and history.

I think what I meant about Niels is that what you said that he wrote was in agreeance.

[uilleannpiper]

What is your friend's name, the one doing the PhD?

But you're right in the sense that those Javanese who hold more to their kejawen traditions as opposed to stricter Islamic practices have a different outlook, and less likely to be critical or opposing towards 'kafir' practices.

[flapjack]

Goodness,
my friend doing his Ph.D. that was back in the mid 80's, he had a nice beard but I can't recall his name.

Thanks for putting that into better words about me being right. That's exactly what I meant to say, but perhaps I wouldn't have used the word 'k----' under any circumstances.

I am not really a scholar in any given area but have read widely on many topics such as ancient history, comparative religion, symboloy, philology, etc ...just because my knowledge is not focused doesnt inhibit me from sharing.

You are kind and smart. Sincere thanks, flapjack.

I guess I like this forum because I am teaching in TW now (so boring) and teaching in Indonesia for most of the 80's, were the the glory days for me. I'm 46 years old with 21 years experince in ESL in many countries. That's why I am the forrest gump of tesol.

Cheers!

[TEAM_PAPUA]

Great pi55ing contest!

HURRAH!!

5-1 odds on flapjack against the more experienced, but much older (and senile), Henry.

The winner will have an all expenses paid meal for one at Chilli's (courtesy of UP & his many years of hard work).

[Henry_Cowell]

[flapjack]

Mmmmmm Chili's,
My Uncle designed their Logo and my grandfather designed the logo for 'Mayflower' Moving company. Shizen his ancestors were on it, he prolly recalled how to draw it from a memory locked in his DNA.

And my other grandfather was the Champion Heavy-Wieght Boxer of the American Expeditioanry forces- justa word of warning HC. You can google him at .....Fightin "Bob" Martin...., a hundred and one knock outs in the first round of action and in the boxing hall of fame....funny thing is I can't even box Groceries.

That last paragraph was for the kiddies who want to see a "pissing contest" Great observations on your last entry.

[uilleannpiper]

[uilleannpiper]

[flapjack]

Hi Uilleannpiper,
My humble BA degree is in religion of which I have learned much about since my travels.
I guess the word K---- just bugs me because it is used as a pejorative towards non-believers in the muslim way. For me it's like using the N word, I never have felt comfortable with it.
Also K----- has some other meaning in south africa, right? maybe you can jog my memory on that one.

I guess it's ok to use it when talking about things or expressing ideas.
I did see a news reel about the Tsunami and yogja earthquake where the village elders were blaming such things on non beleivers and saying it was the will of god.

Personally I feel uncomfortable with that but if it helps them to feel better and accpet things, who am I to judge.
Hey, I woke up this morning and listened to some Uilleann pipe music, great stuff and gets the irish blood pumping. Do you play? you can pm me if you don't want to talk about it, here.
have a great day.

l> (wunjo)

[TEAM_PAPUA]

UP -

I see. You are reading widely, forming your opinions, and then spewing them onto this forum. There really is nothing like a good book to encourage people to talk about things they know nothing about.

I was fortunate enough to study under the knowledgeable eye of several excellent professors while I was enrolled in the Southeast Asian Studies Dept, University of Hull.

History & Culture of Maritime/Mainland Southeast Asia with J. Christie provided an exceptionally interesting introduction to the region. However, the time I spent with Prof. Hill was simply illuminating. I would, like many others, listen for hours (literally) to his stories. These people knew what they were talking about.

I guess you are right � I feel a little 'left out' because you are talking shit about things you know nothing about, and I have no interest in your intellectual ma5sturbation (not to mention your earlier BS about textbooks, your 'tenfold' salary, and your ojek trips to the kampung)

Most people can read a book.

flapjack

[laughing_magpie06]

I taught a class of banking staff once who proclaimed the 2004 tsunami as God's plan for the world. Middle class Jakartans, not religious extremists.

Also, very true about the independence theory. Most people believe that on August 17, 1945, Indonesians merely scared the dutch and Brisitsh out of the country and become free overnight. Some of my smarter students wrote an essay to that effect.

[TEAM_PAPUA]

Henry pointed out that it is the proclamation of independence which is celebrated � the point is, the students are not taught that proclaiming independence and becoming independent are two very different things.