Job Discussion Forums

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: Non-native speakers and the CELTA

Some Taiwanese grad students were asking about going for the CELTA. Problem is, their English is Upper-Intermediate at best.

Having never done the CELTA, I'm not sure whether they have a chance of passing or not, but I would presume they would be wasting their time.
They want to teach English back in Taiwan when they finish their MA.

Oh, and the Master's program for Internationals is a joke. We often have people earn their degree without ever having learned English. Mad

Can anyone offer some insight?

Jetgirly · Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 741

I don't think they would be accepted into the program. If they were accepted, they would probably not pass. I would tell them to spend their money on more English classes and hold off on teacher training for a while. I dealt with a similar situation last summer, where one of my students was an English Education student who already worked actively as an English teacher in Korea. She submitted several plagiarized assignments during the course and was probably only at the intermediate level herself. It scared me that she already perceived herself as being a capable English teacher.

Frizzie Lizzie · Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:17 pm Post subject:

Jetgirly's right.
They'd be wasting their time applying for such a course, but they'd never get past the interview.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:08 am Post subject:

Hmm, interesting. Considering how robotic, clipped and stilted many native trainees can start to sound whilst jumping through the required pedagogical hoops of the CELTA, it might not be so unimaginable that non-natives with shaky English could manage ('Reduce TTT! Maximize STT! Stick to clear plans, with plenty of signposting in your best Classroom English!'. Could be a training course for Japanese high school teachers, for all the genuine discourse it presents and encourages. Still, if you believe everything Widdowson writes, this sort of babyish classroom has untold advantages).

Anyway, they could maybe take a look at the TKT (Teaching Knowledge Test), for a start (there's a downloadable glossary of teaching terms/jargon) - I get the idea that it appeals to more than a few teachers who might not have that great English (e.g. some of those JTEs in Japan), but who still want to be able to "talk shop", appear "communicative" etc.

Ultimately however, I'd agree that one of the main things that one needs to be a more effective teacher (at least, of EFL or ESL or ESOL proper) is a genuinely good grasp of and ability (including a "response-ability") in the target language, so if these wannabes get fazed just trying to master the underlying teaching jargon much less the actual overarching language itself, it could be just the sort of wake-up call they need.

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

sorry to break in on your conversation guys, but i've read a few discussions on "native" vs "non-native" teachers...don't you think that calling it such names is rather unfair in this GLOBALIZING WORLD with this GLOBAL use of ENGLISH Confused

i agree to certain extend on some questionable level of some English teachers that are in ESL biz as well as on those poor MA programs, but

Deicide · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject:

When I was in Paris doing the CELTA we had French folks in the programme that spoke abominable English....and they passed...so I guess, ca va... Confused

Jizzo T. Clown · Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject:

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

sorry Jizzo, but i don't think you'd succeed with your "two-level" basic and fluent program Smile

Deicide · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject:

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

Deicide · Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject:

englishgibson · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Posts: 4345

and that's why you see those CELTA or universities' students of MA degrees at such "high" levels of English as you've mentioned on here Wink

....the question is whether our world we be able to function with such "Intermediate" communication skills around Confused

saint57 · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:18 am Post subject:

saint57 · Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:21 am Post subject:

elenai12 · Joined: 05 Nov 2006 Posts: 20 Location: NEW YORK

hi,
i'm not a native english speaker, but i got my education in a very reputable eastern european uni and when i came to usa i got my job as an esl teacher in ny public school in a heart bit, no questions asked (yes, i had to pass a test for the licensing), i worked as an esl teacher, than changed my career to special ed. teacher ( working from the agencies - more money, 1:1 and less behavior problems), i got my 2d MS in Ed, but still, i'm not a native english speaker, so what? when i was working on my 2d master's ( which i got with the GPA 3.86) i did not feel that my language skills were worse, the only thing was my british accent, which lessened with years, but still can be heard...
and the kind of teachers i've seen in nyc schools and all of them were native enlish language speakers... it makes me wonder what the schools are looking for : education or slang teachers?
anyway, it was just a remark on the native english speakers being in high demand