Job Discussion Forums

[rusmeister]

I would really like to know if there is a place in dave'seslcafe where the impact of philosophy and religion on teaching CAN be discussed.

Philosophy and religion (a major source of philosophy) have an undeniable impact on teaching.

To briefly quote John Stormer: �If you ever get the opportunity, ask your state or local superintendent of schools these two questions:
1) What do you see the nature of man to be?
2) What should be his purpose in life?

�an educator will invariably answer: �We don�t deal with questions like that.� �it was then pointed out that it is impossible to construct a system or philosophy of education without consciously or unconsciously making a definite determination about a child�s basic nature and what his purpose in life should be. Those answers ultimately control all other education decisions.

I've recently got the impression that some people here think that philosophy (including religion) is somehow divorceable from education, and would really like to discuss this.

[natsume]

We don't know the content of the posts the moderator deleted in the capitalization of "God" thread, but I feel that at some level, given the appropriate age and linguistic ability of the students, that this kind of conversation is wholly appropriate to the language class. It is an investigation of how different cultures negotiate meanings about the divine, "god" etc., through their respective frames of their own language, and the language being learned. When we learn a language, we also learn about the culture of the language being learned. How can philosophical ideas be divorced from this?

[Guy Courchesne]

I completely agree...we sometimes discuss such topics o'er in the Mexico forum.

Let me start one in this thread by pointing out that:

-very very few foreigners are prepared at all to discuss religion or philosophy as it relates to teaching abroad or teaching English.

-TEFL training programs often fail to take culture into account, or mistakenly use TESOL (teaching at home) concepts abroad

-a lot of people teaching abroad are incapable of fully understanding the culture of their host nation and what they means for work in the classroom.

Thoughts?

[Jizzo T. Clown]

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

As long as this thread remains focused on teaching, it will remain active. If it becomes something else and a general discussion of philosophy and/or religion, it will be locked or deleted.

[Glenski]

If one wants to discuss religious or philosophical topics unrelated to education, I would suggest going to a forum that allows it. Forums like this one are created for educators and their topics, and having a catch-all section for non-education topics just creates too many problems for the moderators. In short, people just can't discuss things without flaming them. Any innocent post usually erupts into name-callling and worse, and a moderator just can't control such things very well.

If one wants to discuss some connection between religion or philosophy and the world of education, by all means. I think we've seen by the moderator Kalgukshi's post that this will be acceptable, but only if people can keep the discussions on-topic. That is, within the realms of teaching.

I would assume (and hope for clarification on this) that "teaching" refers only to teaching ESL/EFL. Why? Well, if one thinks bringing up the topic, say, of evolution vs. creationism is fair game just because it is "teaching related", I foresee a huge problem in the discussions exploding into a frenzy. Besides, the name of this forum is the ESL Cafe, is it not?

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

In terms of clarification, teaching will remain the focus of this thread.

This thread will not be about philosophy and/or regligion. There will be some latitude regarding restricting it only to the teaching of ESL, but there will be no latitude when it comes to off-topic, insulting or otherwise inappropriate postings. These as well as attempts at trolling, derailing or hijacking this thread will result in sanctions for the responsible parties.

[Aramas]

Is Rusmeister Paulie resurrected? Perhaps it wasn't entirely successful, since he certainly smells funny.

Philosophy and religion are completely unrelated. One is the art of thinking, whereas the other..., well. Trying to tie them together is a red herring, and if you let the original poster do his stuff he'll set up so many straw men that you'll swear you're at a Wizard of Oz convention. The op is taking a typically evangelical approach to getting around the rules so that he can indulge in a bit of smug proselytising. I swear that they must teach cult members how to do that stuff during their indoctrination - the methodology is so predictable. What I find so astonishing about their approach is that they invariably seem to think they're clever, all the while stacking up so many fallacies that a junior high school debating team would cringe.

Philosophy is not taught at high school level, or at least not in any meaningful way. At best they might dabble in a bit of logic and reason. Religion is compatable with neither, and should not be taught to children at all, imo. If parents want their children indoctrinated they should have it done professionally. Allowing language teachers to inflict religious dogma on vulnerable children under the guise of 'education' should qualify as a form of child abuse. As for preaching to adults in language classes - if I was a student in such a class I would demand my money back. However one may feel about dogma, at least it's free.

Education is about learning how to think, not what to think.

[been_there]

Aramas' last sentence is the correct answer to the question.

Education is teaching students HOW to think, not WHAT.

Teach problem-solving skills, language awareness, learning styles etc. Rote memorization is for the transmission of cultural memes and should not be considered education.

[Bayden]

[Guy Courchesne]

[Aramas]

[ls650]

[Jizzo T. Clown]

I second that, Guy.

As per critical thinking, I teach ESL students in a university prep program, and many of them have always learned by rote memorization. They find it extremely difficult to accept that there is not always one, single, right answer--rather, any answer is acceptable as long as they can show that they have thoroughly thought through the question/task/etc.

ls650/bayden--

Not all of us teach strictly grammar. While I wouldn't presume to teach philosophy per se, I do know what it takes to succeed as a university student (as would most of us who have gone through the system), and that is the ability to think for yourself and not to always accept everything you hear at face value.

To me, this is the philosophy that should be considered--our own reasons and attitudes towards teaching, and what we truly expect our students to gain from their short time with us.

How many teachers can you remember that truly changed the way you perceive things? How cool would it be to be one of those teachers to someone else??

[Guy Courchesne]