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Chris_Crossley



Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Well-qualified, maybe, but no experience?! Reply with quote

I didn't start a family (which, in my case. meant becoming a parent for the first time) until I was 38 1/2!!! So I do not see any reason for the tearing hurry to start a family by the age of 30!

I am doing an MA in Education degree online at this moment, and, all being well, I will finish it by December next year. I have been able to finance myself through the program by virtue of the fact that my current job in China pays very well, indeed. Oh, and I have a mortgage here in China, too, would you believe?

I have been in China for five years now, so I have been in the business for quite some time, as you can probably guess. One cannot expect the well-paid jobs to fall into one's lap with no experience in the field no matter how qualified one thinks one is, be it a bachelor's, a master's or even a doctorate.

I already had an MBA by the time I started teaching ESL five years ago, but that was not a passport to a highly-paid ESL job by any stretch of the imagination! I had to start at the bottom like everyone else, so be realistic with regard to getting your first taste of overseas experience, whether it is teaching or something else that you think you want to put on your resume in order to impress somebody who might employ you back home when your stint is over and done with.

Once in-country (overseas, that is), you can search around for a better-paid job and thus be in a much better position to check out future employers, especially if you can get friendly with expatriates currently working at any school you might want to consider. Their own perspectives should be invaluable and might even be more trustworthy than those of managers of local, privately-run schools who might otherwise be economical with the truth (if not downright lie to you to your face), since their motive would primarily be money rather than education.
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MELEE



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2583
Location: The Mexican Hinterland

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Well-qualified, maybe, but no experience?! Reply with quote

Chris_Crossley wrote:
I have been in China for five years now, so I have been in the business for quite some time, as you can probably guess. ...

...I already had an MBA by the time I started teaching ESL five years ago,


Sorry to side-track the thread jenn, but...

Chris,
With well over a thousand posts under your belt, surely you realize that 5 years in the ESL business by no means makes you one of the senior teachers on this board.
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ls650



Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 3484
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Well-qualified, maybe, but no experience?! Reply with quote

MELEE wrote:
With well over a thousand posts under your belt, surely you realize that 5 years in the ESL business by no means makes you one of the senior teachers on this board.

I think it definitely puts him in the minority, though. If you take a look at the various posts here, while most of the more prolific posters here have been teaching for some time, the vast majority of posters are relative newbies to the TEFL biz.
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NathanRahl



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, thats pretty much how it works here. The most prolific posters seem to have been here for eons, with a few who have not. HOwever those few follow the lead of the most senior here, which is usually a bad lead.

Truth be told, I have seen very little help offered by the most "Senior" here, and more offered by the more junior, who have, while perhaps not being here in china very long, have done a lot of research, and actually wish to help.

Seems to me that the most "senior" here, while not all, most of them seem to just want to make rather smart remarks, bicker amoung themselves about who is smarter, and generally waste everyones time.

That's just one mans view point, garnered from about 2 months of lurking, but no posting. Anyone else have any views on the more senior members here, let me know.
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Chris_Crossley



Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 1797
Location: Still in the centre of Furnace City, PRC, after eight years!!!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: Well-qualified, maybe, but no experience?! Reply with quote

MELEE wrote:
Chris_Crossley wrote:
I have been in China for five years now, so I have been in the business for quite some time, as you can probably guess. ...

...I already had an MBA by the time I started teaching ESL five years ago,


Sorry to side-track the thread jenn, but...

Chris,
With well over a thousand posts under your belt, surely you realize that 5 years in the ESL business by no means makes you one of the senior teachers on this board.


I never said I was "one of the senior teachers" on this board. You said it. Surprised

All I said was that I have been here in China for five years, so I know something about the business. There are some posters who have been in the business for much longer, I know. I also know that there are some posters who have expressed their annoyance at what they have perceived, rightly or wrongly, as alleged condescension by other posters, but it is always possible to take things the wrong way.

A forum such as Dave's is meant for giving and receiving advice as well as exchanging opinions, even if some people may not necessarily like what other people say - or, perhaps, more significantly, the way that people say what they want to say.

Yes, there are some posters who have enjoyed and may continue to enjoy creating aliases and fictional stories, usually of disasters, "being used", being told "Sorry, we can't hire you", etc, etc, just to get some reaction from fellow posters and have a good belly-laugh at their expense. These are, of course, based on some (unfortunately) true incidents that have occurred to TEFLers, some newbies, others not.

The management people of a great number of private schools in China have pretended (and may still pretend) that they have the necessary certification to hire foreign expats when it turns out they do not and may or may not (yet) have been raided by the authorities. I have known a few expats in the past who had been hired by schools that had allegedly not actually had the authorization to do so, so their experiences at those so-called "schools" had not been very pleasant, to say the least.

As for "senior teacher", I do not consider myself as such. Experienced, yes, but not "senior", not after only five years! Since MELEE brought up the term, "senior", I might as well ask: How much experience does one need to have already before being considered "senior" on this board?
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Jizzo T. Clown



Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 668
Location: performing in a classroom near you!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: Well-qualified, maybe, but no experience?! Reply with quote

Chris_Crossley wrote:
How much experience does one need to have already before being considered "senior" on this board?


Sounds like a good idea for a poll!

To the OP--

I still suggest teaching adults, which is pretty much guaranteed at most conversation schools in Japan. And not all convo schools are bad!
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NathanRahl



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 509

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel sorry for you Chris if you truly believe the nonsense spewed by the seniors here that I create "aliases" and make up stories to get laughs.

This is just a way to confuse others and discredit someone, if you look at their replies and how often they change their view, you'll see they don't actually believe any of what they are saying, it's just a good tool to keep things under control.

You have fallen into the trap as well Chris, disparaging others, and generally assuming the worst.

Oh and Chris, I do not think who is senior here matters very much. The most senior here have already acted in ways that are so juvenile and provactive that they really are not to be trusted.

If you want tyo know the real skinny on china, ask the newbies. We are not so impressed with ourselves and our knowledge that we rest on our Laurels. We study and research, and are likely more up to date on things then they are. This has been my experience anyhow.

True, a few of the long timers here are worth talking to and getting advice from, but as you see, they rarely give it, and when they do, it is often couched in a way designed to make you feel stupid, and them smart by comparison, so don't waste your time folks, believe me.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1. From what I gather on these threads, there�s not much to see and do in Korea...would I get bored?



There is plenty to do in Korea if you are not closed minded. I have joined a baseball team and others have taken up taekwondo or hop ki do!!!
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Besides, jenn, you have only (no offense) a freshly minted BA degree. No experience. No teaching license. Other than the options you listed, what else did you expect to get in your first EFL/ESL job? You gotta start somewhere, usually on the bottom rung.


Well with the way the ESL business sometimes works you never know what job you might be offered if you just send in a nice pic along with your resume. ESL hiring is not always done based on experience and qualifications. Of course that is really no different than back home.
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Craig!



Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jennjenn,
it's great that you're planning and researching, BUT, like the others advise, ''be flexible''. You will find, ''Life is what happens to you when your making other plans.'' You may change your mind and priorities, and MANY other good opportunities will arise -when you least expect it.
Quote:
...I don't have any desire to teach in a conversation school
.........come again???
As for the Peace Corps, i 'd advise against it - because they will not place you where you want to go, plus a few more reasons. I was accepted into the PC, after a long process, but did not go on to serve - 50% of nominees do this!!! for various reasons.

'Neat the way you've listed your options, pros and cons... if you choose that way, look at your winner, 5:2. There's your answer, China.
Yantai is a good choice; besides the Univ, there are many other good schools and language academies. i'll be working there next year; contact me if you come, fellow San Diegan.
Your next college language course will be Chinese or Korean (or Japanese was it)? That might be the decider to where you go abroad. It should be a factor, at least
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you want tyo know the real skinny on china, ask the newbies. We are not so impressed with ourselves and our knowledge that we rest on our Laurels. We study and research, and are likely more up to date on things then they are. This has been my experience anyhow.

Perhaps true where you live, but whatever country you insert into that first sentence above, I think to rely on newbies is a mistake. Their outlook is bright and cheery (assuming they are still in that phase of culture shock adaptation), but that's only because they have not faced the realities of life abroad. I get bashed for spouting doom and gloom at times, but what I do is post realities. The flip side of the coin. What newbies have not lived long enough to see where I live. And that is based on experience.

Also, to say that newbies "study and research"... hmmm, perhaps this deserves some clarification. Study what? Research what? Many newbies are just immersing themselves in a foreign culture. Maybe they are studying the local language, or is is just the opposite sex? Are they researching various teaching techniques for publication in TESOL Quarterly, or are they researching the latest sightseeing hot spots? I think the balance falls heavily on the latter sorts of matters. When I was a newbie, I worked on the former, but I felt (and still feel) that I was a rarity.
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jennjenn



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I meant when I said that I don't want to teach in a conversation school is that I'd rather teach in a public school, even if less money is involved.

My language class next semester will depend on where I choose to go, not the other way around...which is why I am in "turmoil" because I don't want to sign up for Japanese 101 and then end up in China. What would be the point?

I do have a little experience actually...for the past several months I have been a facilitator in ESL classes for college-age students. It's kinda like an ALT, I think. I come up with lesson plans, clarify definitions and meanings, explain idioms and colloquialisms (sp?), take over the class when the teacher is lazy, etc. It's fun. I like it. Very Happy


I don't expect to get some wonderful fantastic amazing job, but I think the experience helps a bit...doesn't it? Also, I am Asian-American so I am bracing myself for major rejection, maybe not quite so much in Japan but definitely in Korea (again, all based on what I've read on the boards.) This is a reason why going abroad "with" JET or Fulbright (or PC) feels so safe, because I have been told that my looks won't matter in the selection process.
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westonw



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, it sounds like you're ready for quite the adventure. a couple of your options sound very familiar as to the path i'm currently on. after working a couple seasons in florida & alaska i was able to save up enough cash to move to central america. i originally was planning on investigating teaching opportunities but ended up working with habitat for humanity doing volunteer coordination. i was a long term volunteer which meant my cash flow was flowing in the WRONG direction (got paid $200/month stipend). after a year i was still determined to try teaching so i've since ended up in south korea. ok...enough about me, let's talk about you.

Teaching in Korea
korea has been great to me thus far and if you get the fulbright i'd hop all over it. but even if that doesn't work out i'd still suggest considering south korea. it's not a tourist destination but i still find the culture fascinating. the money is great and after a year you could have easily saved up enough money to pay off some bills and go spend a year teaching/volunteering in latin america. if you're taking language into consideration for using it as a skill later in life, i'd say learning korea, japanese, or chinese in a 2 year period is pretty ambitious unless you have solid prior knowledge of the language. but then again, some people just seem to absorb languages and you might be one of them.

Peace Core & Latin America
i've known a lot of people who have done the peace core and everyone has said the experience was a rewarding one. any grievances i've heard were mostly about the lack of a strong support system. i think you can finding teaching in latin america on your own and you'd probably just earn enough money to get by. there's a bunch of opportunities volunteering with NGO's if you're trying to improve skills in another field. you may not get paid much but if you've saved up elsewhere it shouldn't be a problem since the cost of living is much cheaper. here's a personal pro and con for you...

pro - central america especially has really utilized the brilliance of hammocks. for some reason i really miss that.
con - one things that really got to me was the crime. you really have to stay on your guard. i got robbed 3 times there. it's a complete 180 from what i've experience in south korea.

all else aside i loved latin america and plan on returning there for another year or two before ever 'officially' settling down.

China or Jet Program
i can't comment on the JET program (but have heard good things) since i have little knowledge of either one.

hope the decision process goes well jennjenn and safe travels. suerte!
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jennjenn



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everybody.

I also have just applied to the NYC Teaching Fellows program. God only knows why.

Wes, I really like your website. And in the hopes of not sounding pretentious, I have to say do have an "ear for languages." But especially with formal study of Japanese or Chinese, I know I could do well.
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JZer



Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I also have just applied to the NYC Teaching Fellows program. God only knows why.


My advice, go abroad and then you can do something like the NYC Fellows program if you want to return home.
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