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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Deicide wrote: |
| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
I think what Deicide was saying is that the use of "like" is most prevelant in America and it is overuse of "like" which smacks of inarticulation, not necessarily that Amercian English speakers are more inarticulate.
While I agree that those who overuse "like" tend to do so because they are inarticulate I don't believe that it is only Americans that do this. The use has spread to almost every native English-speaking community and is used by inarticulate speakers of every nationality. Previously, inarticulate British English-speakers made use of "y'know" to parade their inarticularity (is that a word?).
Watch almost any interview with a footballer (soccer player for anyone who makes up two-thirds of the native-English speaking world).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olJgM4pnCNo |
Indeed I meant just that; Beckham's English is not very flattering...sigh...how much does he earn? Why is a footballer who sounds like a git receive such a ridiculous salary?  |
Have you listened to basketball or football players recently? And they even have "degrees". |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Don't confuse Valspeak with standard American English |
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| White_Elephant wrote: |
Don't confuse Valspeak with standard American English
"Valspeak is a common name for the dialect used by valley girls, stereotypical dumb blondes, living in the San Fernando Valley, with rich parents, a superficial social life and a lot of attention for fashion and parties. This stereotype originated in the 1970s, but was at its peak in the 1980s and still popular in the 1990s. Though a fad, many phrases and elements of Valspeak, along with surfer slang and skateboarding slang, have become a permanent part of the California English dialect, and in some cases wider American English (such as the widespread use of "like" as conversational filler)...The dialect can often be distinguished by its intonation, and by its pharyngealisation of certain consonant sounds, particularly the "L" and rhotic "R" sounds occurring in the coda[citation needed]. Pharyngealisation is rare in the English language and its presence here is possibly unique within American English, though it is detectable in similar circumstances in some variants of Irish English and Scottish English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valspeak
"A certain dialect of speech became associated with valley girls which became referred to as "Valspeak," common among teenage females during the 1980s.
Qualifiers such as "like," "way," "totally" and "duh" were interjected in the middle of phrases and sentences as emphasizers. Narrative sentences were often spoken as if they were questions (high rising terminal).
Some of the slang included:
"As - if" (expresses distinct doubt)
"What-Everrrr" (expresses sarcasm & disinterest)
"Barf me out!" ("That's disgusting.")
"Fer shur." ("Certainly.")
"Totally." ("Yes.", "Definitely.", "I agree.", or "Very much.")
"Gag me with a spoon!" ("That's disgusting.")
"Grody to the max!" ("That's disgusting." The word "grody" was already popular in the early 1960s).
"You little rat!" ("You told on me!" Although the word "Rat!" is used often to describe a person, if even not related to context)
"Like, oh my god" (expresses shock). The word "like" is often used alone as a filler. It is sometimes spelled "omigod" or "omigawd"...
The term originally referred specifically to affluent young women living in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles, California.
The term morphed in the 1980s and 1990s to represent a more widespread and cartoonish stereotype of young women�typically characterized by a "ditzy" or "airheaded" personality, and unapologetically "spoiled" behavior that showed more interest in shopping, personal appearance, and popular social status, rather than in any self-enriching pursuit.
The "Val" is typically blonde-haired, (sometimes dyed) and is sometimes portrayed as hypersexual."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_girl
If you are hanging around such people who use valspeak this is a reflection of you and not a reflection of standard American English. Perhaps you like the ditzy, airheaded blondes... |
Mate...you are off the mark. I am an American English speaker and what you are saying is bollocks. Whilst Val-speak has not spread to the far corners of the country, its irksome fillers have. Last time I was in New York, my home town I heard the gibberish be used on a constant basis. With each passing year its fequency and ubiquity grows. Technically a descriptivist I cannot deny my prescriptivist leanings...in combination with the flat, boring and monotone nature of GenAm it is a recipe for disaster. The list is endless but then again the list usually applies to every variety. At least UK dialects, isolects and variants have antiquity on their side...
My advice to you, perambulate the USA and you will hear it in every place, in every state and city...the end is nigh... 
Last edited by Deicide on Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Don't confuse Valspeak with standard American English |
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| Deicide wrote: |
| White_Elephant wrote: |
Don't confuse Valspeak with standard American English
"Valspeak is a common name for the dialect used by valley girls, stereotypical dumb blondes, living in the San Fernando Valley, with rich parents, a superficial social life and a lot of attention for fashion and parties. This stereotype originated in the 1970s, but was at its peak in the 1980s and still popular in the 1990s. Though a fad, many phrases and elements of Valspeak, along with surfer slang and skateboarding slang, have become a permanent part of the California English dialect, and in some cases wider American English (such as the widespread use of "like" as conversational filler)...The dialect can often be distinguished by its intonation, and by its pharyngealisation of certain consonant sounds, particularly the "L" and rhotic "R" sounds occurring in the coda[citation needed]. Pharyngealisation is rare in the English language and its presence here is possibly unique within American English, though it is detectable in similar circumstances in some variants of Irish English and Scottish English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valspeak
"A certain dialect of speech became associated with valley girls which became referred to as "Valspeak," common among teenage females during the 1980s.
Qualifiers such as "like," "way," "totally" and "duh" were interjected in the middle of phrases and sentences as emphasizers. Narrative sentences were often spoken as if they were questions (high rising terminal).
Some of the slang included:
"As - if" (expresses distinct doubt)
"What-Everrrr" (expresses sarcasm & disinterest)
"Barf me out!" ("That's disgusting.")
"Fer shur." ("Certainly.")
"Totally." ("Yes.", "Definitely.", "I agree.", or "Very much.")
"Gag me with a spoon!" ("That's disgusting.")
"Grody to the max!" ("That's disgusting." The word "grody" was already popular in the early 1960s).
"You little rat!" ("You told on me!" Although the word "Rat!" is used often to describe a person, if even not related to context)
"Like, oh my god" (expresses shock). The word "like" is often used alone as a filler. It is sometimes spelled "omigod" or "omigawd"...
The term originally referred specifically to affluent young women living in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles, California.
The term morphed in the 1980s and 1990s to represent a more widespread and cartoonish stereotype of young women�typically characterized by a "ditzy" or "airheaded" personality, and unapologetically "spoiled" behavior that showed more interest in shopping, personal appearance, and popular social status, rather than in any self-enriching pursuit.
The "Val" is typically blonde-haired, (sometimes dyed) and is sometimes portrayed as hypersexual."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_girl
If you are hanging around such people who use valspeak this is a reflection of you and not a reflection of standard American English. Perhaps you like the ditzy, airheaded blondes... |
Mate...you are off the mark. I am a American English speaker and what you are saying is bollocks. Whilst Val-speak has not spread to the far corners of the country, its irksome fillers have. Last time I was in New York, my home town I heard the gibberish be used on a constant basis. With each passing year its fequency and ubiquity grows. Technically a descriptivist I cannot deny my prescriptivist leanings...in combination with the flat, boring and monotone nature of GenAm it is a recipe for disaster. The list is endless but then again the list usually applies to every variety. At least UK dialects, isolects and variants have antiquity on their side...
My advice to you, perambulate the USA and you will hear it in every place, in every state and city...the end is nigh... |
xenophilia? 
What I posted was right out of the book. Oh I traveled all over the USA as part of my work on my last assignment. It took many years! Also, I lived in six states. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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White Elephant is right.
Valley Girls started this slang.
Slang starts in LA and NY then spreads to other parts of the US.
"like" started in LA.
'like' is also used in northern England, but in a different way.
'like' goes at the end of sentences. People in Newcastle use it a lot. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Brooks wrote: |
White Elephant is right.
Valley Girls started this slang.
Slang starts in LA and NY then spreads to other parts of the US.
"like" started in LA.
'like' is also used in northern England, but in a different way.
'like' goes at the end of sentences. People in Newcastle use it a lot. |
Aye...the Jordies |
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Deicide wrote: |
| Brooks wrote: |
White Elephant is right.
Valley Girls started this slang.
Slang starts in LA and NY then spreads to other parts of the US.
"like" started in LA.
'like' is also used in northern England, but in a different way.
'like' goes at the end of sentences. People in Newcastle use it a lot. |
Aye...the Jordies |
Deicide, you claim to be a Native American English speaker yet your posts smack of a pseudointellectual Brit. |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| White_Elephant wrote: |
| Deicide wrote: |
| Brooks wrote: |
White Elephant is right.
Valley Girls started this slang.
Slang starts in LA and NY then spreads to other parts of the US.
"like" started in LA.
'like' is also used in northern England, but in a different way.
'like' goes at the end of sentences. People in Newcastle use it a lot. |
Aye...the Jordies |
Deicide, you claim to be a Native American English speaker yet your posts smack of a pseudointellectual Brit. |
I spent many years in Europe at a University where British Orthography was required...apart from that I studied historical English linguistics...hence what you call pseudointellectual...yadayada |
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Sherri
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 749
Location: The Big Island, Hawaii
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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How about the use of "like" instead of "said" as in:
He was like, should we meet up tomorrow and I was like, OK see you then.
People used to use "went" instead of "said" but recently I have noticed that people are using like more for this purpose.
Sherri |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Have you listened to basketball or football players recently? And they even have "degrees". |
If a degree in PE counts has having much of and education. I bet some of the classes are taught by assistant football coaches and assistant basketball coaches. Some American universities have some easy majors filled with their athletes. |
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Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, the Jordis live in Catalonia. Those in Newcastle are the Geordies.[/quote] |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Stephen Jones wrote: |
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Actually, the Jordis live in Catalonia. Those in Newcastle are the Geordies. |
[/quote]
I stand corrected...  |
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furiousmilksheikali
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: In a coffee shop, splitting a 30,000 yen tab with Sekiguchi.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Deicide wrote: |
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
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Actually, the Jordis live in Catalonia. Those in Newcastle are the Geordies. |
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I stand corrected... [/quote]
Whether or not the use of 'like' began as valleyspeak it's use has certainly proliferated. I use to use it alot until I became aware of it and I'm a pseudo-intellectual Brit.
BTW Deicide, what are you doing profaning the Sabbath? Shouldn't you be in church? |
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Deicide
Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1005
Location: Caput Imperii Americani
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| furiousmilksheikali wrote: |
| Deicide wrote: |
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
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Actually, the Jordis live in Catalonia. Those in Newcastle are the Geordies. |
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I stand corrected... |
Whether or not the use of 'like' began as valleyspeak it's use has certainly proliferated. I use to use it alot until I became aware of it and I'm a pseudo-intellectual Brit.
BTW Deicide, what are you doing profaning the Sabbath? Shouldn't you be in church?[/quote]
You're right...I forgot about that...luckily the followers of Yaweh forgot to stone me to death for it |
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White_Elephant
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| The Sabbath could be Saturday or Friday. Those observing Sunday as the Sabbath and attending Rev. Ted Haggard's New Life Church might be home today drying their tears or taking a break from all the scandal. |
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