Job Discussion Forums

[China.Pete]

Compared to other developing countries in Asia, Chinese language institutes and universities seem to charge an awful lot of money, especially for those students who will experience that wonder of wonder-monkeys, a foreign teacher. Given the teacher-centric educational views of many Chinese anyway, this can result in some very demanding students. They're attitude, while they sit mutely in their chairs, can be something like "You'd BETTER be good, considering what I've just paid for your course!"

At the same time, FT's pay is actually less than in comparable Asian markets. When I came to China, it wasn't exactly for the money. But I'm increasingly finding that, in pursuit of a slightly better deal all-around, I'm stuck in some money-factory--earning less than I could almost anywhere else. To add insult to injury, when I take my hard-earned Yuan to the department store for some good quality clothing, etc., I find that the prices are 2-3 times what I would pay for similar items in the West. It seems that the same system of charge-high, pay-low is in effect there as well.

So, I have to ask the question, is teaching in China really worth it?

[NathanRahl]

Hmm, well what your getting charged in point A will differ greatly in point B when talking about china.

As far as it being worth it, I suppose that all depends on whether or not you guage your earning in dollars and cents. If thats what your asking, then no, not at all.

Then again, their are some on here who make great money in china, but they are in the minority.

I know exactly what your saying about language mills, raking in the bucks, and not sharing very much of it with their employees. The pay stinks, but other countries are not much different, look at any big coorperation in America, look at ther minimum wage of $6.15 in the good old USA.

The worker has been getting screwed since the dawn of time, and will continue to be screwed. If you can accept this, you might be happy, if not, then you can decide to become the one doing the screwing.

Is it really worth it, like I said, is it about money, or something else?

[wailing_imam]

If you look hard enough, you'll find that yes, teaching in China is really worth it. I've taught in Indonesia, Saudi Arabia and Singapore. In terms of savings, China has been second only to Saudi Arabia.

There are some seriously rewarding jobs out there in China. However, most of them involve working for foreign companies and NOT Chinese companies. Working for EF, Web, Kai En isn't going to fill the piggy bank - avoid if you want to fill up the bank account.

Working at a public school or university is usually not the best paid of jobs, but look at the hours those people teach. Around 12 a week. If you want to loaf around and enjoy China, then they are ideal positions for those who aren't bothered about loot.

For the ESL mercenaries out there, the streets are full of gold. The idea that China can't be financially rewarding is absolute nonsense.

[sheeba]

[kev7161]

I here the OP. Back home, I can visit Wal-Mart (I know, BOO Wal-Mart, they're scum!) and find bargain after bargain. Low price after low price. I can get the Sunday paper and comparison shop until I find the absolute lowest price on whatever I'm in the market for. I can get rebates from a few cents (for, say, toothpaste) to some hundreds (for, say, buying a computer or car). I can clip coupons, I can shop at double-coupon stores or sometimes even find triple-coupon sales. I can shop off clearance racks. I can find (sometimes) good quality second hand items at a "junk" store or estate sale or a flea market. With a little perseverance I can make my dollar stretch farther (or further, which is it?).

Here, I can go to one block and find ten stores all selling mobile phones for pretty much the same price. Sure I can try and haggle and get the "lowest" price, but that's not usual. I bought a portable DVD player the other day priced at 2599 rmb. The guy knocked off the 99 and I got it for 2500 - - woo hoo! Better than nothing I suppose. I actually find it fun to bargain shop, but I do hate the whole business of haggling.

[jammish]

I can afford a much better standard of living here than I could in the UK. My long term plan is to complete a PGCE certificate, but even if I do do that, my starting salary would be 26,000 quid per year, which works out at around 1600 per month after tax. For a similar flat to the one I reside in for free here, I would have to pay about 1000 pounds a month straight off, so that would leave me with 600 pounds per month, which is less than I get here. And then there's monthly travel at 80 quid a month, hugely expensive clothes, etc. Not to mention grossly expensive Council Tax...

And I'd be working a lot more hours than I am now...

Yes, imported western items are expensive, but they're luxury goods, and are a foolish way to measure how expensive/cheap china is... It's like me judging a western country on how much the Japanese restaurants are, or how 'cheap' the caviar is.

[vikdk]

[NathanRahl]

Very good point vikdk, the quality of most of the items here, especially the cheap clothes, is just that, cheap. The merchandise here is some of the worst quality I have ever seen. The chinese people, by and large, don't take much pride in craftsmanship, hell, if you ever lived in a chinese apartment, you know of what I speak.

[kev7161]

I bought a small electric fan in mid-Spring for my bedside. It's already a goner. I have to buy new space heaters every winter because none that I've bought for the past 3 seasons last beyond that very season. Sure, I could spend several hundred and get a "quality" one, but what if it isn't?

If you knew me personally, you'd see that I can't EVEN buy clothing here (although have found some "fat man" underwear), but not sure I'd want to anyway. In my opinion, it's not that Chinese-made products are all bad, it's just that a majority of the quality items are shipped overseas and the dregs are left behind for the common masses.

[China.Pete]

Let me clarify that when I say "good quality clothing, etc.," I don't mean imports--which I agree with Jammish would be a waste of money--but export-quality items made in China. Shirts and trousers that I would pay $30 to $60 for at home (maybe half that on sale), are priced at the equivelent of $100+ in Chinese department stores.

As you may have guessed, I'm not your basic Wal-Mart shopper. I like nice things that will last me 2-5 years. But as I try to maintain a quasi-middle class lifestyle in China on an FT's salary, I find it coming up short in comparison to other countries I've lived and worked in. That said, I'm interested to read about others' experiences in this regard.

[jammish]

[jammish]

Anyway, if you do find your quality of life isn't great here, it shouldn't be that much of a problem finding a job in South Korea or Thailand or Japan or whatever. Personally I would say that my standard of living is much higher than I could afford in the UK. Still, if you want to work 40 hours a week, to take home 1500 quid a month, of which 1000 goes straight on rent, another 100 on council tax, another 100 on travel, leaving you 4000 RMB, which is about what a bog standard job in China pays, that's your choice.

[Shan-Shan]

Seems we are economic refugees in a developing country. Teaching ESL in an English speaking country where pretty much everyone is a native speaker immediately voids the "special charm" we have here. The mill bosses in the West are also out for a quick dollar/pound, and more likely see profit over teacher quality.

Too bad we can't just immigrate to China, and not have to worry about the hassles of visas, and could just lead this relatively lazy existence for decades to come.

[xinpu]

JAMMISH:

I'm also from the UK and can see the logic in your arguement. However there's a couple of things you haven't factored in.

Firstly work in the UK will most likely involve some element of career progression, training, assesment, personal development and increased management responsibility. That isn't likely to happen here, you will always be the monkey as far as I can see (maybe language chains are different but I doubt it). That 26,000 will increase but will your 4,000 increase with experience?

Secondly any employer in the UK will be paying into a pension fund, amounts vary but if you're working in teaching in the UK the benefits from the teachers pension fund are some of the best in the market. Again I've not seen any evidence of Chinese employer organised pension schemes for foreign employees.

Thirdly if you are putting aside 7-800 per month for an apartment you're certainly in the market for purchasing a property. In terms of wealth creation this is another area that is not easily available to foreigners in china (can we get mortgages here?...I doubt it).

I would also add the availability of general forms of personal finance which I also think is not available here for foreigners.

China has benefits but overall I don't think it makes financial sense long term

[jammish]

I agree with you, and this is why in the long term my aim is to return to get fully qualified. I was merely pointing out that things are not as bad here as some claim, and that it is actually not that difficult to save money either. Indeed we are saving at the moment so that we won't be too skint whilst I take the aforementioned PGCE.