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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| There aren't all that many PhDs employed in California community colleges today compared to 20 years ago. |
The four Chronicle of Higher Education articles I link to suggest otherwise.  E.g., this quote from someone at a California CC, "How does the college's administration feel about hiring Ph.D.'s? City College employs about 90 Ph.D.'s, so they must be seen as enough of an asset to hire in such numbers, given their higher pay scale." MLA also mentions here that nationwide, 6.9% of English PhDs in 2001 went on to teach at community colleges:
http://www.ade.org/facts/placement/placement_fig3a.gif
I think the percentage in California is higher than this national figure because of the great salaries.
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| And in ESL there are almost none. |
Perhaps, but again, California is a strange place. I did the ESL hiring at a small, 4-year private university in California in the early 1990s. I share some of my experiences there in this thread, particularly here:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/job/viewtopic.php?p=449496&highlight=#449496
Still, you're right that ESL jobs at California community colleges can be gotten with just the Masters and do pay a lot. These positions are difficult (for anyone) to get, however--the Chronicle links I provide give some nice pointers. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: |
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I still don't see the numbers of PhDs at community colleges as a percentage of total CC instructors. The percentage is, I believe, relatively low.
Repeat: An American community college is a two-year institution (a junior college). It is not a four-year college, and it is not a university. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| Henry_Cowell wrote: |
| I still don't see the numbers of PhDs at community colleges as a percentage of total CC instructors. The percentage is, I believe, relatively low. |
No, you didn't ask for this info. Instead, you made this comment:
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| There aren't all that many PhDs employed in California community colleges today compared to 20 years ago. |
I responded that the four Chronicle articles--all specifically about community colleges, by the way--seemed to back me up. E.g., they all refer to an increase in the hiring of PhDs at the community college level. I'd be interested, however, in seeing stats which refute them. Do you have any? I can't find anything.
Yet another article makes this point as well:
"At a time when Ph.D.'s, especially in the humanities, far outpace the academic jobs available, the number of them teaching at two-year institutions appears to be increasing, although no one tracks the numbers."
http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/03/2003030401c.htm
Again, in California (and really only there), it's becoming more difficult to get even community college jobs in the humanities without a PhD. You can still do it, but it is becoming much more difficult. I base these opinions both on personal observation (as a former US university educator and administrator) and from reading the Chronicle. If you have statistics which refute these statements, then let me know.
| Quote: |
| Repeat: An American community college is a two-year institution (a junior college). It is not a four-year college, and it is not a university. |
Glad we worked this out. |
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Henry_Cowell
Joined: 27 May 2005
Posts: 3352
Location: Berkeley
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: |
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We're talking primarily about ESL jobs at community colleges. One doesn't need a PhD to get them. The proportion of ESL instructors at CCs with PhDs is minuscule.
Even in humanities departments other than English, the proportion of ESL instructors at CCs with PhDs is small. (The proportion in the sciences is larger.) How small? Who knows? Neither you nor I (nor any of the sources you've cited). The numbers might of course be increasing. But they're still small.
And many CCs prefer NOT to hire PhDs. Why? Because such individuals aren't suitable for the heavy teaching loads and lack of research time/money at CCs, and because master's degree holders usually have more teaching experience (especially for remedial and introductory courses).
In large metropolitan areas, there will be more PhDs at community colleges than in less-populated areas. It's simply a function of the PhD glut in areas that produce many doctorates.
But in ESL, that glut doesn't exist. |
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